Originally posted by debbiejo
Whirly??????? OH god...... hahhahahaha....whirly wouldn't support me.Honor is destructive IMO............so male........And no I'm not a teenager. I live in the world of it...........Honor Pfft.
Honor in it's true form is admirable, but not in histories sake and not in some of todays thinking.
Everyone should have self respect, but this WHOLE HONOR thing is totally a male soooo male "I gotta get you back" Families sake, loves sake, nations sake........EGO.
Hurts people
The exact same thing can be said about love. With the possible exception that more wars were fought and more people died in the name of love than honor.
debbiejo
It's quite obvious you have no idea what honor is.
Your not even hearing (or just not listening to) what Dark Urizen has spelled out for you very clearly.
You just sound like a little teenage girl who has no concept of anything. In order to be taken seriously in any kinda of argument you must allow yourself to step outside of what you personally think and see things from other perspectives. It is apparent you cannot do this. Dark Urizen is using love as an example, a placeholder. There are many other emotions that are responsible for the things that you think honor is responsible for.
have you ever read the Iliad? It is the perfect example of what Dark Urizen is trying to say. Read it, you might learn how love is capable of far worse things then honor is.
I always questioned the validity of the Iliad as a symbol of love, ancient love has a lot of conceptional differences to modern love, in many cases, as society has changed.
Still, I always enjoyed the prideful, honorable end to Achilles, with his "Better to die as a lion, then live as a dog." Of course on reflection when he is met later in the afterlife, his tune has changed significantly, as is right, because his outlook while alive was questionable.
And of course it must be said that the Iliad, the Trojan War, if it occurred, probably didn't pan out quite like that, it has more in common with historical fiction, then true history. Generally I see that the most terrible things in human history are done out of greed, hate, arrogance and fear, though they masquerade as justice, religion, honor and love. Indeed sometimes the people commiting the terrible act actually believe in it's validity. However in such cases they are nothing of the sort, and should be identified as such.
Still, true honor is a great thing, but like so many theoretically virtuous conditions it has a tendency to be tainted by the human condition, by bias, inflexibility, pride, arrogance, envy. Hate. Passion. Zealotry. Once upon a time people killed themselves for honor we are told, and were killed by others for it. Often it really does seem noble, mainly because it involved the person's choice, and is portrayed without all those negative things. In reality did the cookie crumble like that? Who can say. What is certainly wrong though is that some people still have twisted views of honor, and are prepared to act upon them, to the detriment of society as a whole, and the individuals themselves. Such a thing is terrible, and should be treated as a crime, as there is no honor in it, just as there is no honor in stoning homosexuals, or throwing acid on women, or expecting them to throw themselves upon their husbands funeral pyre.
Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Ah, so you're saying you don't agree with what he did, but you understand it, because of their culture?The College i study in has a lot of muslims in it. I've spoken to some that are closer to me about these things. You know what they say? They say what i always thought. That the religion thing is blown out of proportion by the media.
That stories like these happen, yeah, but they're bound to happen once in a while. However, the media make them out to be the consensus for an entire religion.Kinda like saying every single murder in America is somehow connected to Christianity, and then generalizing, and saying that "American culture is weird.....they condone killing and stuff like that".
Get the idea?
Thank you. That was well said
Originally posted by Imagawa666
I dont get it. You think we should respect other cultures practises, but then when they do something thats part of their culture you jump on it. Why? His country, his culture let him do what he likes.
Originally posted by Imagawa666
I dont get it. You think we should respect other cultures practises, but then when they do something thats part of their culture you jump on it. Why? His country, his culture let him do what he likes.
I'm sure most Pakistani women would disagree. These brutal murders had nothing to do with honor. The piece of shit that did this should hang.
This is OK with you? Someone killing because they don't want their pride or honor hurt?
Cultures have different beliefs such as eating their dead relatives to gain their inner essence...Now eating the dead doesn't hurt anyone, but then these cultures seem to have accrued diseases with it from the practice. But Barbaric cultures that feel it's ok to kill ones own flesh is ok?...NO
Originally posted by soleran30
its a weird culture over there............
No, it's a different culture over there. This is the typical American perspective, and the reason most of the rest of the world hate us. It's "weird" and we "don't understand" it and it should be changed and made into us. I understand you didn't say all that, but you did indirectly. It's a differnt culture, that's it. And it would be a matter of weird if the authroities did nothing about it. As it is, they arrested the man and "justice" will be served.
Originally posted by Dark Urizen
Honor is something you're born with, that some people like to keep, some people don't care about, and some people discard.
You're confusing honor with dignity, in the United States. Honor, as Debbiejo pointed out, is a man made concept that is often taken way too seriously. I agree with both sides of this debate. Honor is a good thing, but taking it to extremes is not. A man need not kill himself because he blew a million dollar deal for his company. However, that is their culture. So, who are we to judge? The western mindset views this concept as flawed, and taking itself way to seriously. The eastern mindset views our persepective as sloppy, indignant, lazy and honour-less.
so many insightful people.........no disrepect but I am not going to write a dissertation on all topics.........please I meant the word weird because IT IS WEIRD TO ME...........lol please no need to correct me to fit a PC bill.
Also I realize that even though the man may have felt the need to do this the society as a whole obviously didn't feel it was justified and he has been incarcerated as a result of his actions.
If the rest of the world hates us great super awesome they can hate but not educate and feel justified......typical oh so typical.
Originally posted by Imagawa666
I dont get it. You think we should respect other cultures practises, but then when they do something thats part of their culture you jump on it. Why? His country, his culture let him do what he likes.
its not part of their culture to murder their children.
tens of thousands of people are shot in america every year.
does that make it an acceptable part of american culture?
can you please stop posting, racist child?
It's just ironic really that people like to say that things like this aren't common practice in third world countries............they happen alot and they happen alot more then people in the USA getting shot by handguns as well..........
Born to be a slave in Niger
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programm...ent/4250709.stm
shucks there is an article posted by someone else. If we want to turn our noses up at atrocities in the USA then we should damn well make sure we do it with other countries🙂
Originally posted by Imagawa666
Hey I can be racist if i want. I have the right to freedom of speech. Maybe all this equaltie in the world and political correctness has ruined the human race.
you are right. it is a free country, and you have the right to be a racist, as well as uneducated, idiotic, and childish. all freedoms which you excercise liberally.
Originally posted by Imagawa666
Hey I can be racist if i want. I have the right to freedom of speech. Maybe all this equaltie in the world and political correctness has ruined the human race.
😐 political correctness perhaps. Equality on the other hand and the rights of the individual are something wonderful to apire to unfortunately due to money/power imbalances it is not a real thing. However thankfully in some places we have a pseudo equality on many of the important issues.