Parallax vs Dark Phoenix

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B]Who's talking about X-men here and what does the comparative credibility of these titles got to do with anything when Infinity Watch has no evidence or drawn parallels to start with?

That the X-title itself isn't stacking up against 4 titles. One source V. 4?

Yes i see the Stranger there but what does his appearance have to do with anything? He doesnt say anything to support your case well. Noone on panel does. I certainly dont remember him being an integral part to the Crown argument. I think youve got your wires crossed my friend. Different point.

Did you read the narration? Walock talked about "the others" which includes Stranger.

And what was the White Crown argument, I forget. Stranger sought to gain the PF to become supreme being. And an image of what according to Stranger would happen: the other abstracts would bow/pray to him after he had the PF.

Stranger's words against Stranger, Eternity, Galactus, Eon, LT, Ziran, Chaos, Order, and the Watcher's words.

And guess what? Warlock stomped them left and right. LT with a snap of his finger brought order to the court where Eternity, Galactus, Eon, Stranger, and a bunch of others couldn't. Even Warlock was shocked.

Slice how you want, LT is far above all the other beings. Yet even he acknowledges he serves forces greater then him.

Originally posted by Beyonder
That's what I base it on. Again, I myself don't have all LT appearances but most posters some to reference this as proof. LT has always been as servant of a higher being.

Well thats far from conclusive and the notion isnt sufficiently supported in comics for you to talk of it as canon. You cant say LT is the servant of the supreme being because all we know is LT serves a power greater than himself and the IG. There are a number of beings/power sources which debatably make this cut so you cant equate his master to the supreme being, you can only say its suggested (albeit by one comic)

Originally posted by Beyonder
I get why you want proof of such a person but that's what TOAA is. There's not another being other than LT and his master/forces he represents/powers from on high, powers that dwarf guys like Eternity, Galactus, Death, Stranger, Watcher, Celestial, and most Marvel deities.

There are many beings Beyonder what on earth are you talking about. There are many beings/forces the Infinites, the Phoenix Force, The Starbrand and HOTU.

Originally posted by Beyonder
LT is Marvel's top character/deity. TOAA/GOD is not mentioned, other than terms and phrases given about this being or power that LT represents. What ever this power is, LT serves it. Posters refer to this being or power as TOAA. Why? LT serves him/it, and LT himself guards over the multiverse.

Not good enough to equate LTs master to the supreme being. You can say its suggested however its not fact.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Even when Thanos had the Heart, LT was the top deity there.

Out of the beings there LT was indeed "top of the food chain", however he supposedly represents a power greater than himself or the IG, the HOTU was just that and yet no connection was forged between that power and either LT or his master. With that in mind how can you go by just that early 90's scene and present the idea that LT is linked to the supreme being as fact? Im sorry B you really cant.

Originally posted by Beyonder
But when it comes down to it, LT is at the top of the hierarchy. There's lots of story and characters statement to back up LT's position in the hierarchy. Like it or not, LT himself is the judge or the multiverse. He's more consistent than most of your Marvel's yearly/month "Supreme Being."

But thats the thing though B we have had on panel powers which have been shown to humble LT (Phoenix in X-men Forever and HOTU) or disregard his judgements (Korvac) so you cant use the point that LT is the top power who himself serves a higher power to present your opinion as fact.

Originally posted by Beyonder
He is what he is. And according to him and many others, he is only a servant or a higher power/force. Unless they demote LT, he'll always be a universe being above all the rest. And according to him and other characters, he's only a servant.

Noones denying LT's role in the multiverse however that is not enough to equate his master to the supreme being. So basically because hes one of the most powerful forces in the multiverse and he serves an unseen higher power its sufficient to say he is a servant of God or that his master is God in the first place? If thats your logic then you should have no problem with Jean Grey being a servant of the supreme being? Theres considerably more on panel support for such a connection than there is for LT. 😉

Originally posted by Beyonder
That the X-title itself isn't stacking up against 4 titles. One source V. 4?

Youre not understanding Beyonder. In no way shape or form is it stated or even heavily suggested that LT is gods servant, therefore its not a case of my titles versus your titles. This LT god connection has just sprung up as a result of a vague comment by LT in Infinity Watch 1 and his role in the multiverse thats all. You dont have multiple titles to draw upon you have one and then you have others showing LT's role in the multiverse.

Jean for example is actually referred to as an aspect of god and parallels are drawn on panel, theyve even gone and made the Crown/White Hot room the core of all creation in line with real life principles. In a crossover they even had Phoenix and the Source as one and the same and yet thats not enough in comparison?

It works both ways my friend.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Did you read the narration? Walock talked about "the others" which includes Stranger.

And what was the White Crown argument, I forget. Stranger sought to gain the PF to become supreme being. And an image of what according to Stranger would happen: the other abstracts would bow/pray to him after he had the PF.

Stranger's words against Stranger, Eternity, Galactus, Eon, LT, Ziran, Chaos, Order, and the Watcher's words.

Stranger had nothing whatsoever to do with the White Crown argument. Youve confused yourself as i stated in my last post. Different point.

X-men Forever and Strangers words were in support of the Phoenix Force giving power enough to become the supreme being of reality. The thing is it wasnt merely Strangers views on what he could do with the power. Eternity froze Stranger in time and told Jean that the process Stranger sought to bring about prematurely was something that happened naturally anyway so while they (speaking on behalf of the abstracts and LT) accepted their fate as part of the natural order, Stranger sought to bring about this process early and then benefit from it by using the power to protect himself during the collapse of reality, ensuring he could survive into the next (just like the Phoenix did for Galan and Eternity) unchallenged as the supreme being

Originally posted by Beyonder
And guess what? Warlock stomped them left and right. LT with a snap of his finger brought order to the court where Eternity, Galactus, Eon, Stranger, and a bunch of others couldn't. Even Warlock was shocked.

Lets not forget that LT agreed that he was unsure of whether his power was sufficient to overcome Adam with the IG. Nullifying the effects of a simple power blast isnt reason enough to assume LT is even greater than the IG when a) Dr Strange has done the same b) he went on to agree with the aforementioned and had to persuade Adam to co-operate.

Originally posted by Beyonder
Slice how you want, LT is far above all the other beings. Yet even he acknowledges he serves forces greater then him.

LT is far above most beings and forces, not all as has been shown quite conclusively on panel. Either way his role in the multiverse and the fact that he serves a higher power is not enough to say his master is the supreme being. Is it inferred? Yes, but certainly not as much as a Phoenix Force connection is, yet even i can accept that its not canon until its stated or conclusively shown on panel. If you want to disregard that and push for a connection then you must be open to opinions regarding the Phoenix Force. You cant have it both ways. 🙁

gotta side with gs, here. the way lt is represented on these forums people speak as though it has somehow been conclusively proven that he serves the 'supreme being' aka god, when in fact NEITHER of these assumptions have been proven in anyway at all.

the only thing proven is that lt serves something greater than him. could it be 'god'? i suppose . . . though i'd need a lot more on-panel evidence to take that side of the argument. lt's powers/decisions HAVE been overcome before and challenged many times, so we know he's not even the most powerful entity WITHIN the multi/megaverse.

the heart of gs's point is this, (correct me if i'm wrong gs!): people don't like when gs draws connections between pf and 'god', BUT there HAVE been many on-panel inferences (not conclusive proof, mind) to support the notion that this is at least possible and a viable interpretation. meanwhile, many seem to assume lt serves as god's judge, when there is in fact practically ZERO evidence to support this claim.

say what you will about gs and his pf ideas, at least he does his best to depict his theory with on-panel evidence (some of which MAY be open to interpretation . . . 😄) this whole lt-serves-god-thing CANNOT be likewise supported. based on what has appeared in comics, pf has a much stronger claim to be tied in someway to 'god' than lt does.

Originally posted by leonidas
gotta side with gs, here. the way lt is represented on these forums people speak as though it has somehow been conclusively proven that he serves the 'supreme being' aka god, when in fact NEITHER of these assumptions have been proven in anyway at all.

the only thing proven is that lt serves something greater than him. could it be 'god'? i suppose . . . though i'd need a lot more on-panel evidence to take that side of the argument. lt's powers/decisions HAVE been overcome before and challenged many times, so we know he's not even the most powerful entity WITHIN the multi/megaverse.

the heart of gs's point is this, (correct me if i'm wrong gs!): people don't like when gs draws connections between pf and 'god', BUT there HAVE been many on-panel inferences (not conclusive proof, mind) to support the notion that this is at least possible and a viable interpretation. meanwhile, many seem to assume lt serves as god's judge, when there is in fact practically ZERO evidence to support this claim.

say what you will about gs and his pf ideas, at least he does his best to depict his theory with on-panel evidence (some of which MAY be open to interpretation . . . 😄) this whole lt-serves-god-thing CANNOT be likewise supported. based on what has appeared in comics, pf has a much stronger claim to be tied in someway to 'god' than lt does.

Thats exactly my point. 😄

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