Oh, and EVERYONE!...don't forget to take tomorrow to pray for rain in Oklahoma. The governor has asked that everyone take time on Sunday to pary for rain in teh state. He also asked that, if any Native American rain dancers were still alive, after that 'rotten meant' incident, to contact him in his fall out shelter behind the baptist church at the end of nonegro street.
A bit more on Sorokin..for those that are interested. Many of his "unorthodox" philosophies about the fall of a society "mirror" the philosophies of Christian Theologians/Scholars.
http://www.criminology.fsu.edu/crimtheory/sorokin.htm
Pitirim Alexandrovitch Sorokin
Pitirim A. Sorokin was a major figure in social thought in the previous century. People have been intrigued, challenged and inspired by his ideas, and he has had a lasting influence on methods and theory in the social sciences. He began as a criminologist, and was heavily affected by a dramatic personal history and shattering historical events. His personal history is complex and his social / criminological theories would still be considered unorthodox. Academic conflicts affected his career and the acceptance of his ideas in ways that are still instructive to those interested in the political realties of academia. Though no longer seen as a major figure in criminology or sociology, his was a lasting contribution.
After the famines and upheavals in Russia, Sorokin wrote on hunger and deprivation, and proposed that societies where hunger and plenty coexisted, higher criminality would occur as the relative deprivation causes friction and institutions of protection of possessions break down. (Sorokin, 1975: 226). He then widened his scope after immigrating to America.
Sorokin saw laws and societies as operating with two tensions, mirrored in the individuals. The ideational is drawn from sacred or higher law and the sensate deals with more earthy motivations. The norms of the ideational system are above such considerations as pleasure or utility, crime and sin being synonymous. Punishments range from supernatural (excommunication) to the physical and are rigid and inflexible. Authority comes from above and filters downward through the state (Sorokin, 1992: 121-127).
Sensate law is an instrument of subjugation, which is totally utilitarian and aimed at security of human life, property and possessions. This is a secular system, and non-utilitarian functions are avoided. A society can move back and forth between these poles, as can individuals in societies under stress. Punishments and rules are based on selfish interest and avoidance of pain (Sorokin, 1992: 121-127).
A person who sees life in a sensate manner will have no normative brakes to keep them from criminality. Desires and lusts rule them, and they know no other law save “might makes right”. Periods of social transition are especially prone to this kind of rootless-ness as ideational impediments are lessened. No longer bound by “higher” feelings, they then become morally relativistic and rationalize any outrage (Sorokin, 1992: 169, Sorokin, 1967: 158). Increases in suicides, insanity and criminality can be traced to the changes in society from ideational values to more sensate ones (Sorokin, 1992: 184-186).
Sorokin became interested in the crimes of governments and rulers, applying his ideational/sensate system to world leaders and affairs. He denounced the Machiavellian nature of most politics and recommended the use of saints and sages, to lead by their example of heroic morality (Sorokin and Lunden, 1959: 181). The immoral (sensate) urges seem to be stronger in most rulers, and he advocated countering by using morally good, altruistic examples to counteract the inherent criminality of the ruling classes (Sorokin and Lunden, 1959: 58).
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_EVI/preface.htm
"Every important aspect of the life, organization, and the culture of Western society is in the extraordinary crisis?. Its body and mind are sick and there is hardly a spot on its body which is not sore, nor any nervous fiber which functions soundly . ...... We are seemingly between two epochs: the dying Sensate culture of our magnificent yesterday and the coming Ideational culture of the creative tomorrow. We are living, thinking, and acting at the end of a brilliant six-hundred-year-long Sensate day. The oblique rays of the sun still illumine the glory of the passing epoch. But the light is fading, and in the deepening shadows it becomes more and more difficult to see clearly and to orient ourselves safely in the confusions of the twilight. The night of the transitory period begins to loom before us, with its nightmares, frightening shadows, and heart-rending horrors. Beyond it, however, the dawn of a new great Ideational culture is probably waiting to greet the men of the future." [3. Pitirim A. Sorokin, The Crisis of Our Age, E. P. Dutton & Co., Inc., New York, 1951, p. 13.]
Originally posted by whobdamandog
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_EVI/preface.htm
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
http://www.witness-pioneer.org/index.htm
Cap..you're being silly my friend.
The quote was actually taken directly from
Pitirim A. Sorokin, The Crisis of Our Age, E. P. Dutton & Co., Inc., New York, 1951, p. 13.
I just referenced the site where I obtained the quote from. It's always good to give credit where credit is due, regardless of differences one has regarding politcal/religious ideologies. I think we can all agree that Sorokin was definitely not a practicioner of the Islamic faith, nor am I for that matter.
The flaw with this thinking is the idea that, in contrast, all historic civilisations that had strong families survived, and that all modern day civilisations with a strong sense of family are laudable achievements.
Neither is true (if you want strong family ties, let's have a look at Iran...), so therefore the family collapse is not actually the cause of any of these problems; its collapse in civilisations that depended on it (which is not a universal requirement) was a consequence of other things.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Cap..you're being silly my friend.The quote was actually taken directly from
[b]
Pitirim A. Sorokin, The Crisis of Our Age, E. P. Dutton & Co., Inc., New York, 1951, p. 13.I just referenced the site where I obtained the quote from. It's always good to give credit where credit is due, regardless of differences one has regarding politcal/religious ideologies. I think we can all agree that Sorokin was definitely not a practicioner of the Islamic faith, nor am I for that matter. [/B]
Yeah, it took what, 10 of my posts before you found one you could say something about? Just more of your crappy rhetoric. You'll even go so far as to quote an Islamic site to further your old ideas. Besides, my post about who Sorokin was, and WHEN Sorokin was big news is still relevant.
Originally posted by Gregory
You know, whobdamandog, we're all completely convinced of your ability to quote right-wing nut-jobs on the internet. You can stop any time you want to.
Well I had to post a topic to add a bit of "diversity" to these forums. Most of what's posted here seems to have just a bit(sic) of a "leftist" slant too it...🙄
This wouldn't happen to be the inspiration for this ricockulous thread, would it?
http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/decline.html
Doomsayers for many years have been predicting the decline and fall of this country. And while many of these short-term predictions have proved inaccurate, there is some truth to the prevailing belief that this nation will fall like every great nation before it. Apart from revival and reformation, this nation is destined to decline.The problem with many of these doomsayers is that while their prognosis is right, their diagnosis is wrong. Yes, the future is bleak. But our problem is not ultimately political, economic, or social, as these doomsayers would have us believe. The decline of this nation (just as the decline of every other nation) is due to spiritual factors. The political, economic, and social problems we encounter are the symptoms of the spiritual deterioration of a nation.
Just as there are spiritual principles that influence the life of an individual, so there are political-spiritual principles that govern the life of a nation. And though we may feel that these are obscure and difficult to discern, in reality they are visible to anyone willing to look at the record of history.
Our problem is that we don't really learn from history. George Santayana said that "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it." The philosopher Hegel said, "What experience and history teach us is this: that people and government never have learned anything from history or acted on principles deduced from it." Or as Winston Churchill said, "The one thing we have learned from history is that we don't learn from history."
The refrains that are often heard are: "It can't happen here," or "Our country is different." But the reality is that nations are born and die just like individuals. Their longevity may exceed the average person's lifespan. But the reality is that nations also die.
History has shown that the average age of the great civilizations is around two hundred years. Countries like Great Britain exceed the average while other countries like the United States are just now reaching the average age.
Each of the great civilizations in the world passed through a series of stages from their birth to their decline to their death. Historians have listed these in ten stages.
The first stage moves from bondage to spiritual faith. The second from spiritual faith to great courage. The third stage moves from great courage to liberty. The fourth stage moves from liberty to abundance. The fifth stage moves from abundance to selfishness. The sixth stage moves from selfishness to complacency. The seventh stage moves from complacency to apathy. The eighth stage moves from apathy to moral decay. The ninth stage moves from moral decay to dependence. And the tenth and last stage moves from dependence to bondage.
These are the ten stages through which the great civilizations have gone. Notice the progression from bondage to liberty back to bondage. The first generation throws off the shackles of bondage only to have a later generation through apathy and indifference allow itself to once again be enslaved.
This is the direction this and every other country is headed. The book of Judges shows that the nation of Israel passed through these same stages. And this country will do the same unless revival and reformation break out and reverse the inexorable decline of this nation.
The Cycle of Nations
In his book The End of Christendom, Malcolm Muggeridge makes this powerful observation. He says:
I conclude that civilizations, like every other human creation, wax and wane. By the nature of the case there can never be a lasting civilization anymore than there can be a lasting spring or lasting happiness in an individual life or a lasting stability in a society. It's in the nature of man and of all that he constructs to perish, and it must ever be so. The world is full of the debris of past civilizations and others are known to have existed which have not left any debris behind them but have just disappeared.
He goes on to say that
...whatever their ideology may be, from the Garden of Eden onwards such dreams of lasting felicity have cropped up and no doubt always will. But the realization is impossible for the simple reason that a fallen creature like man though capable of conceiving perfection and aspiring after it, is in himself and in his works forever imperfect. Thus he is fated to exist in the no man's land between the perfection he can conceive and the imperfection that characterizes his own nature and everything he does.
Nations rise and nations fall. Every nation has followed this progression from bondage to bondage. The nations of this century will be no different. But let us not accept the Marxist notion that these are fixed and intractable laws of history. Christians can point to unusual times when revival has redirected the inexorable decline of a civilization. In the Old Testament, Jonah saw revival postpone God's judgment of Nineveh. In the sixteenth century, Martin Luther and John Calvin saw a Protestant Reformation transform Europe. And even in the history of the United States the First and Second Great Awakenings changed individuals and our society.
But apart from God's intervention, nations will decline and eventually pass off the scene. Much of the Old Testament records the history of the nation of Israel. It passed through these same stages and so will every country in the world.
As Christians we must recognize that nations will rise and fall just as individuals will be born and die. Our civilization will not last indefinitely, but will eventually pass off the scene. Only God's Word endures forever. We should not put our trust in the things of this world for they are destined for destruction. Instead, we should put our faith in God and His word.
I found this by typing: Decline of the family homosexuality into the google search engine. It was the 1st results listed.
The Decline of the FamilyNations most often fall from within, and this fall is usually due to a decline in the moral and spiritual values in the family. As families go, so goes a nation.
This has been the main premise of thinkers from British historian J. D. Unwin to Russian sociologist Pitirim Sorokin who have studied civilizations that have collapsed. In his book Our Dance Has Turned to Death, Carl Wilson identifies the common pattern of family decline in ancient Greece and the Roman Empire. Notice how these seven stages parallel what is happening in our nation today. In the first stage, men ceased to lead their families in worship. Spiritual and moral development became secondary. Their view of God became naturalistic, mathematical, and mechanical.
In the second stage, men selfishly neglected care of their wives and children to pursue material wealth, political and military power, and cultural development. Material values began to dominate thought, and the man began to exalt his own role as an individual. The third stage involved a change in men's sexual values. Men who were preoccupied with business or war either neglected their wives sexually or became involved with lower-class women or with homosexuality. Ultimately, a double standard of morality developed. The fourth stage affected women. The role of women at home and with children lost value and status. Women were neglected and their roles devalued. Soon they revolted to gain access to material wealth and also freedom for sex outside marriage. Women also began to minimize having sex relations to conceive children, and the emphasis became sex for pleasure. Marriage laws were changed to make divorce easy.
In the fifth stage, husbands and wives competed against each other for money, home leadership, and the affection of their children. This resulted in hostility and frustration and possible homosexuality in the children. Many marriages ended in separation and divorce.
Many children were unwanted, aborted, abandoned, molested, and undisciplined. The more undisciplined children became, the more social pressure there was not to have children. The breakdown of the home produced anarchy.
In the sixth stage, selfish individualism grew and carried over into society, fragmenting it into smaller and smaller group loyalties. The nation was thus weakened by internal conflict. The decrease in the birthrate produced an older population that had less ability to defend itself and less will to do so, making the nation more vulnerable to its enemies.
Finally, unbelief in God became more complete, parental authority diminished, and ethical and moral principles disappeared, affecting the economy and government. Thus, by internal weakness and fragmentation the societies came apart. There was no way to save them except by a dictator who arose from within or by barbarians who invaded from without.
Although this is an ancient pattern of decline found in Greece and Rome, it is relevant today. Families are the foundation of a nation. When the family crumbles, the nation falls because nations are built upon family units. They are the true driving social force. A nation will not be strong unless the family is strong. That was true in the ancient world and it is true today.
Social commentator Michael Novak, writing on the importance of the family, said:
One unforgettable law has been learned through all the disasters and injustices of the last thousand years: If things go well with the family, life is worth living; when the family falters, life falls apart.
Sounds familiar....
More of your crusade against fags...
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
This wouldn't happen to be the inspiration for this ricockulous thread, would it?Sounds familiar....
More of your crusade against fags...
You're being oversensitve Captain. No crusade against any particular group(s) of people have been made. The topic of this thread really centers around the decline of the family..and how redefining typical societal roles/standards leads to the ultimate "breakdown" of a society. If you read each and every post..you will find that "homosexuality" is not the sole argument being presented to support this argument.
Switched gender roles, sexual promiscuity(this includes homosexual AND heterosexual sexual acts), moral relativism, materialism, are among some of the other pertinent issues being discussed.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
You're being oversensitve Captain. No crusade against any particular group(s) of people have been made. The topic of this thread really centers around the decline of the family..and how redefining typical societal roles/standards leads to the ultimate "breakdown" of a society. If you read each and every post..you will find that "homosexuality" is not the sole argument being presented to support this argument.Switched gender roles, sexual promiscuity(this includes homosexual AND heterosexual sexual acts), moral relativism, materialism, are among some of the other pertinent issues being discussed.
No, it is not. But, it's your motivation. As for your other points, I addressed those already.
Originally posted by whobdamandog
Interesting points Rep Wood has made..in my humble opinion. I don't agree with everything that was posted. But it does seem as if western society has experienced a certain degree of "Social Marxism" over the last several decades.
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
http://www.legis.state.wi.us/assembly/asm67/a67comte.html
Did everyone understand this post? There is no representative Woods being quoted. The only Rep Woods on teh ways and means commitee is the one I posted a link to. This "Bill Wood" is a private citizen.