i need 2 things:
issue numbers where this 'immortal herc' has appeared and a place where it says in a book somewhere that their is a difference between this 'immortal' herc and this so called 'demi-god' herc and that one is stronger than the other.
strongest version of herc i've seen is the avengers run, champions run and the herc ltd series that isn't canon.
ba likely beats that one 6-7/10. strength would be comparable (not enough of a difference to decide this fight) and skills would also be comparable. ba is one nasty biatch and held off both cm AND supes simultaneously for a short time. skill and strength are too close so i look at other factors. speed and flight are big enough advantages to give ba the majority, methinks, and i'd go with ba in durability.
"Speed isn't everything. Besides, Hercules has FTL superspeed. He just doesn't like using it"
Hush man. Keep it a secret.
"Cap. Marvel has the stength of Immortal Herc. BA is stronger than CM."
Where did he showed to be stronger? Hes more ruthless, Billy isent. They both always seemed even. And Billy has wins against him.
"Originally posted by the Darkone
He has the strength of Dc hercules not marvels, DC hercules and Marvel hercules are different from each other. Immortal Hercules strength is greater > captain marvel & Black Adam.
In your opinion ofcourse."
He did got one thing right. The strenght its from DC Hercules, not Marvel one.
"Black Adam has 3000 years of fighting experince"
Hercules wheter in DC or Marvel has centuries of fighting experience as well.
"Since when? I've never heard of this."
he was joking.......................maaaan.
"issue numbers where this 'immortal herc' has appeared and a place where it says in a book somewhere that their is a difference between this 'immortal' herc and this so called 'demi-god' herc and that one is stronger than the other. "
Immortal Herc showed up since the 60`s until the 90`s when he got depowered.
Ancient demi God Herc strenghtwise its the same as Immortal. He did do all his crazy famous feats back then after all. His strenght was already godlike.
The difference between ancient demi god mode and immortal its that.....firstly one would die and the "other" doesnt.
> Demi god didnt had durability higher than a human athlete.
> Immortal has a high degree of invulnerability.
> Demi could tire. (even he already had quite the high stamina, but still could tire.)
> Immortal doesnt. (virtual tireless).
The differences wer always on the -other- physical stats never the strenght.
Its how i see it. If immortal was ever stated to be -even- stronger, i dont see much evidence of that.
And just for grabs, when Marvel depowered him in the 90`s, he got back to his demigod days. The only difference was that the strenght wasent godlike as before. Wich means depowered Herc was way less in strenght than in the ancient times, as well as when Immortal.
(confused? Take an aspirin, you will feel better).
"ba is one nasty biatch and held off both cm AND supes simultaneously for a short time.
Wasnt that pre crisis, Leo?
<<Wasnt that pre crisis, Leo?>>
that's true, but still impressive nonetheless and i'm not sure ba really became 'depowered' after crisis.
so what i've said all along about herc was right. there really was no real differences -- 'cept for the mortal one. all this immortal/demi-god stuff is forum speak and not necessary. only one that really needs to be id'd is the mortal one that was around for only a very short time.
why the heck do people on insist on making things so damn complex?
I would give the edge to Black Adam. Most people forget his powers are powers stamina of Shu, the swiftness of Heru (Horus), the strength of Amon, the wisdom of Zehuti (Thoth), the power of Aton, and the courage of Mehen. The key being the wisdom of Zehuti as you can make the case that they are on a similar level strength and experience wise. Add in the fact that BA is smarter and can fly. He takes the majority 6-7/10 IMO
issue numbers where this 'immortal herc' has appeared and a place where it says in a book somewhere that their is a difference between this 'immortal' herc and this so called 'demi-god' herc and that one is stronger than the other.
Hercules had a mini-series around 1997/98 after Onslaught, when he'd returned from space after escorting Deathcry home. He had been depowered awhile ago in Avengers before Onslaught. Zeus took away his immortality--it left him very powerful, but stripped him of a quarter to a half of his strength depending on the writer. Anyways, he had a three issue mini-series where he helps SHIELD out, fights the minotaur, muses how it gave him lots of trouble as a true immortal, but gets super determined and kicks its ass--showing us he's had awesome potential all the time but dubs around too much.
In Hulk:Hercules Unleashed, he gets his ass kicked by the Hulk, puts up a good fight, but to no avail really. However, they go to Olympus, to find out where Hercules' comrades--the Avengers--have gone. Zeus offers to grant him one wish, Hercules wishes to find their location--Zeus gets mad that Herc didn't ask for his immortality and power back, since he's one of Zeus favored sons, and Zeus kind of wanted an excuse to go against his own previous decree and welcome his estranged son back with open arms.
I don't know what issue he lost his some of his power in, but those are two places where they tell us explicitly that he has, and show how he has become weaker.
I want to see Hercules win this battle, he's a goofy, powerful, fun character, but Black Adam has the edge with a greater variety of powers.
Black Adam is not = Captain Marvel in strenght. Captain Marvel gets his strenght from Hercules, a demigod/god. Black Adam gets his strenght from Aton/Aten, who is the Egyptian skyfather.
"that's true, but still impressive nonetheless and i'm not sure ba really became 'depowered' after crisis"
Not sure about that. They all did. Marvel has won against Adam alone and pre crisis i dont recall him doing that. He and Superman usually needed to team up against him.
"so what i've said all along about herc was right. there really was no real differences -- 'cept for the mortal one. all this immortal/demi-god stuff is forum speak and not necessary. only one that really needs to be id'd is the mortal one that was around for only a very short time"
Yes, Ancient demi god and Immortal arent different in strenght. You know the myths yourself Leo. He had crazy stuff even back then.
In order for immortal to be even stronger, his regular feats would have to be higher than they are. On the same token his high ends would have to surpass the planetary level, wich is where the highest feat he had belongs to.
But its not what happens. Immortal Herc higher feats are still in planetary category, not above.
"Zeus took away his immortality--it left him very powerful, but stripped him of a quarter to a half of his strength depending on the writer."
You really mean very powerful? I dont see how. He was stated to have lost half of his powers (strenght included) as well as loss of immortality.
Very powerful if you compared with guys like Spiderman. He was around cl 50 by then.
Tecnically that low powered Herc lasted from since he got depowered- to that space travel- Hulk fight- Heroes for Hire- that 3 issue minieries "Heart of Chaos" - first stories of the new Avengers run with Perez like Nefarius fight.
After those stories he has been gotten stronger and back to top tier.
"I don't know what issue he lost his some of his power in, but those are two places where they tell us explicitly that he has, and show how he has become weaker."
Around issue 361....something like that. Two runs ago.
"Black Adam is not = Captain Marvel in strenght. Captain Marvel gets his strenght from Hercules, a demigod/god. Black Adam gets his strenght from Aton/Aten, who is the Egyptian skyfather"
They are mostly written as equals tho where post crisis is concerned.
Assuming Black Adam has the strength of DC Hercules then I don't think he's comparable to Marvel Herk. DC Hercules is below Wonder Woman in strength and she is below Superman. Marvel Hercules IIRC did once hold up the weight of the Earth on his back which IMO is a feat well above any Superman has single-handedly performed after Crisis. I don't think Black Adam is even close if he is only as strong as DC Hercules. And what annoys me about DC fans is that they think that anybody who has super-speed automatically uses it all the time. How often do you ever even see a guy like Superman actually fight at super-speed? Maybe a few times throughout his whole career? Exactly. Speed is not that important. And I don't know Black Adam that well but I do know that Hercules is a pretty danged great fighter, tho I'm not sure if he's as good as Thor. But if BA is just some Superman clone then I think Herk can do it.
Originally posted by Uberking RobertGo to the Superman respect thread to see Supes using speed more than a few times like you stated.
Assuming Black Adam has the strength of DC Hercules then I don't think he's comparable to Marvel Herk. DC Hercules is below Wonder Woman in strength and she is below Superman. Marvel Hercules IIRC did once hold up the weight of the Earth on his back which IMO is a feat well above any Superman has single-handedly performed after Crisis. I don't think Black Adam is even close if he is only as strong as DC Hercules. And what annoys me about DC fans is that they think that anybody who has super-speed automatically uses it all the time. How often do you ever even see a guy like Superman actually fight at super-speed? Maybe a few times throughout his whole career? Exactly. Speed is not that important. And I don't know Black Adam that well but I do know that Hercules is a pretty danged great fighter, tho I'm not sure if he's as good as Thor. But if BA is just some Superman clone then I think Herk can do it.
He just used it in the latest Superman issue.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Supermanvortexin.jpg
If we're talking about the comic book characters, Hercules and Black Adam, and not some abstract power rankings/RPG-like stats, Hercules and Black Adam would likely fight hand-to-hand.
Hercules would be amazed at Black Adam's strength, speed, and toughness, but in the end, Hercules is just a better fighter (IMO, natch) and would win.
Hercules fought the Thunderbolts and had the edge against the whole team. Atlas knew he didn't have a chance and was willing to sacrifice himself if it meant saving the team. This is similar, but less impressive, than BA holding his own against the JSA. Do I think Hercules could beat the JSA? No, but that's comparing apples and oranges. Black Adam's speed, strength, and durability make him a good fight against a team, Hercules powers generally don't.
In a hand-to-hand battle, though, Hercules has shown capable of standing up to anyone. When Eric Masterson Thor was possessed by Ares, Hercules beat him even when holding back. He used his great skill to hold him down while using his strength to force the hammer to strike the ground and trigger the transformation from Thor to human-form.
There is no way Black Adam is stronger than Hercules. When Hercules and Thor arm-wrestled they were said to be generating enough force to knock the Earth out of orbit. What's Black Adam's top feat?
