Iron Fist vs Karate Kid

Originally posted by Digi
I'm familiar with those feats. My comments stand. Now, I know the Legion just got a new series, and if there's a new KK in it, I'm not familiar with him. So if you're using him, we may be talking about different things.

But the most recent KK I've read was sick/dying during Countdown, so all of his feats (or lack thereof) have to be taken with a grain of salt, and before that could stalemate low heralds simply through MA skill.

He wasn't dying the whole time during Countdown, or at least, not affected by it. He stalemated/got the best of Batman at the top of Countdown (although it was with memory loss, but he obviously still had MA skills), which could be construed as where he's supposed to be at. His best feat was fighting with Mon-El and that's like his only high feat, off the top of my head.
His striking power is far removed from PC days though.

Originally posted by Digi
I'm familiar with those feats. My comments stand. Now, I know the Legion just got a new series, and if there's a new KK in it, I'm not familiar with him. So if you're using him, we may be talking about different things.

But the most recent KK I've read was sick/dying during Countdown, so all of his feats (or lack thereof) have to be taken with a grain of salt, and before that could stalemate low heralds simply through MA skill.

He still dodged lightning, and in Countdown took it to a character that was strong enough to cut through Supermans skin and tank his blows...

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Ah, you're just hatin' then. Can't handle the Fist, is that it Digi?

He wasn't dying the whole time during Countdown, or at least, not affected by it. He stalemated/got the best of Batman at the top of Countdown (although it was with memory loss, but he obviously still had MA skills), which could be construed as where he's supposed to be at. His best feat was fighting with Mon-El and that's like his only high feat, off the top of my head.
His striking power is far removed from PC days though.

Post crisis, one version cleared tons of ice and snow with a single punch, and Countdown version was breaking the limbs off of Equus. The same Equus who's limbs are powerful enough to draw blood on Superman.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Ah, you're just hatin' then. Can't handle the Fist, is that it Digi?

He wasn't dying the whole time during Countdown, or at least, not affected by it. He stalemated/got the best of Batman at the top of Countdown (although it was with memory loss, but he obviously still had MA skills), which could be construed as where he's supposed to be at. His best feat was fighting with Mon-El and that's like his only high feat, off the top of my head.
His striking power is far removed from PC days though.

The Mon-El fight is FAR from his only post-crisis feat that puts him at or near that level. There's too many to list, but a few off the top of my head are when he quelled an earthquake with ground strikes, detected the weakness in a gigantic ship and brought it down, shattered diamond, in a single strike shattered hundreds of tons of snow and ice around a huge structure. There are others, but it's been a few years since I've gone through them all. Then there's the Equus fight while he was noticeably sick.

Danny's got a few high-end feats to hang with those, yes. But "lol, stalemate to Batman" doesn't erase KK's entire history, which is much more impressive.

Originally posted by cdtm
Post crisis, one version cleared tons of ice and snow with a single punch, and Countdown version was breaking the limbs off of Equus. The same Equus who's limbs are powerful enough to draw blood on Superman.

Originally posted by Digi
The Mon-El fight is FAR from his only post-crisis feat that puts him at or near that level. There's too many to list, but a few off the top of my head are when he quelled an earthquake with ground strikes, detected the weakness in a gigantic ship and brought it down, shattered diamond, in a single strike shattered hundreds of tons of snow and ice around a huge structure. There are others, but it's been a few years since I've gone through them all. Then there's the Equus fight while he was noticeably sick.

Danny's got a few high-end feats to hang with those, yes. But "lol, stalemate to Batman" doesn't erase KK's entire history, which is much more impressive.

It should erase it. But Batman is simply awesome.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The Ice feat is good, but far removed from stalemating people on Mon-El's level, which was the implication.
Same with the Equus feat. Plus, they're knives designed for cutting. I'm not getting the connection. Just because they cut Superman, they must be super durable?

The limbs need to be strong enough to cut through Supermans skin, like how Wolverine couldn't really cause damage despite having superior cutting instruments.. (As DC's strongest metal is, as most, comparable to secondary adamantium, barring special items like Wonder Womans vambraces..)

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The Ice feat is good, but far removed from stalemating people on Mon-El's level, which was the implication.
They're knives designed for cutting. I'm not getting the connection. Just because they cut Superman, they must be super durable?

None of those feats put him at stalemating low herald level through skill though (save Equus feat). 😬
They're good striking feats, but they don't give me the indication he's going to get in there and throwdown with say Wonder Man. Hell, they're actually comparable to Danny's if you want to go there.

It should erase it. But Batman is simply awesome.

He doesn't beat low heralds, obviously. But he can hang with them, yes. His sheer reaction times in most fights put him well into the superhuman. You can make the argument that the feats I listed don't = low herald, and it's completely valid. But he's not facing Wonder Man, he's facing IF. Those feats were designed to show that he's beyond Danny, which I still believe he is.

There's also his flight ring to consider, which should be standard equipment. Flight, maneuverability, and occasional forcefields could help a lot.

Also, don't lowball the Equus fight. We can play semantics about whether his limbs need to be Superman level (they don't, clearly, though they have to be somewhere in the ballpark), but the point is the fight was psychotically impressive.

Originally posted by Digi
He doesn't beat low heralds, obviously. But he can hang with them, yes. His sheer reaction times in most fights put him well into the superhuman. You can make the argument that the feats I listed don't = low herald, and it's completely valid. But he's not facing Wonder Man, he's facing IF. Those feats were designed to show that he's beyond Danny, which I still believe he is.

There's also his flight ring to consider, which should be standard equipment. Flight, maneuverability, and occasional forcefields could help a lot.

Also, don't lowball the Equus fight. We can play semantics about whether his limbs need to be Superman level (they don't, clearly, though they have to be somewhere in the ballpark), but the point is the fight was psychotically impressive.

Does the KK we're assuming is in this thread even have a flight ring? Let alone one he'd use?

I'm not low balling it, I'm just not of the assumption that just because he could cut Superman, that it means he's very durable. For God's sake, KK kicked his arm off, and later karate chopped his forearm off. That's not Superman level, that's not even close.

Bran sucks and KK wins

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
But the feats are almost the same as Danny's. You're right though, he isn't facing WM, or Equus, or anyone else, he's fighting someone with striking power parallel to himself, and actual MA skills.

Does the KK we're assuming is in this thread even have a flight ring? Let alone one he'd use?

I'm not low balling it, I'm just not of the assumption that just because he could cut Superman, that it means he's very durable. For God's sake, KK kicked his arm off, and later karate chopped his forearm off. That's not Superman level, that's not even close.

...well, when you take into consideration the substances KK has cut through with his skill, it really means Equus could be ultra-durable and still get chopped up. I mentioned the diamond feat, and there's a feat of KK rocking his way through DC's indestructible adamantium-type substance, but I forget the name. Equus really could be Superman-level durability, and given KK's feats it's not unreasonable to say he'd be able to cut through it.

Flight rings are standard for Legion members. They're often forgotten in forum settings, but I see no reason why it shouldn't be standard equipment for KK.

Originally posted by Digi
...and there's a feat of KK rocking his way through DC's indestructible adamantium-type substance, but I forget the name.

Inertron. Even Superboy and Mon El had trouble breaking through the stuff.

...Rumble box

Karate Kid massacres him. Not only does he beat him with MA skill, but he can enhance his strength (well, technically. I've seen Sun Boy do it before) and fly via the flight ring.

Originally posted by Blair Wind
Karate Kid massacres him. Not only does he beat him with MA skill, but he can enhance his strength (well, technically. I've seen Sun Boy do it before) and fly via the flight ring.

Danny can also enhance his strength as well as the fact that he's almost as good a martial artist as Val so this is by no means a clean sweep.

I dunno...

You dont see how flying could help? Pick up, throw down. 😐

And no, no one is "as good" as Val in terms of MA. When Danny learns every single MA in the galaxy, much less his own world, then on skillset alone he may come close.

He has some perks in long range ability, but Val is the guy who goes against Superman level beings (Mon El, Ultra Boy) for fun. It won't do him much good.

Eh, Danny's not stupid enough to fall for a trick like that but Val's not allowed his Flight Ring anyways so whatever.

Val knowing every martial art in the galaxy is hyperbole; he mastered every martial art on Planet Earth in the 30th\31st Century or so which is still pretty impressive 👽

Danny could likely give Supes a run for his money as well, also: Jo, Mon, and Kara are not even close to being in Kal's league, dude...

Originally posted by Blair Wind
You dont see how flying could help? Pick up, throw down. 😐

Also it allows charging from the air, granting lots of momentum and not having to worry about footing.

val ftw

this is what KK gonna do to danny

i really dont see what danny brings that val hasnt seen