ki adi mundi vs kwigongin?

Originally posted by darthsith19
Qui-Gon was tired. And he did have Maul on the defense for a while. Why would this mean Mace has no saber defense? Also (correct me if I'm wrong) Mace hadn't perfected Vaapad until after Qui-Gon's death. Maul pwning Mace? No. Hell no. Not ROTS or AOTC Mace, anyway. TPM Mace vs. Maul could go either way, IMO. If Maul stays focused he'll probably win, if not, bye, bye Maul.

1- I don't see any reason nor proof as to Qui-Gon being "tired" and this somehow affecting his saber ability.

2- Qui-Gon Jinn was lashing out ineffectively at Maul for quite some time. Maul casually and very easily maintained a defensive advantage and when he got Qui-Gon isolated, turned the heat on and pwned the jedi master. His defense is HORRIBLE. If you are as good as Mace Windu (The lightsaber prodigy who made his own style in his TEENS) you don't get socked in the jaw with your saber over your head and then sit there like a damn fool while Darth Halloween does a halfturn and backstabs into his abdomen. I don't care what anyone says, Qui-Gon's style sucked. His lightsaber mastery needed a serious overhaul, and the idea that he's on par with Mace Windu (And that Mace Windu went from sucky Qui-Gon level in TPM to uber saber master in AOTC is ridiculous) is hyperbole and UNSUPPORTED in the evidence. Period.

Qui-Gon is the man I think'd take this...he got cheated out of the council position Ki-Adi got and was an incredible swordsman in his own right...an example of him being tired would be when we see him try to meditate during the brief standoff with him and Maul...Ataru does burn up energy, after all

1- I don't see any reason nor proof as to Qui-Gon being "tired" and this somehow affecting his saber ability.

2- Qui-Gon Jinn was lashing out ineffectively at Maul for quite some time. Maul casually and very easily maintained a defensive advantage and when he got Qui-Gon isolated, turned the heat on and pwned the jedi master. His defense is HORRIBLE. If you are as good as Mace Windu (The lightsaber prodigy who made his own style in his TEENS) you don't get socked in the jaw with your saber over your head and then sit there like a damn fool while Darth Halloween does a halfturn and backstabs into his abdomen. I don't care what anyone says, Qui-Gon's style sucked. His lightsaber mastery needed a serious overhaul, and the idea that he's on par with Mace Windu (And that Mace Windu went from sucky Qui-Gon level in TPM to uber saber master in AOTC is ridiculous) is hyperbole and UNSUPPORTED in the evidence. Period.

i agree you cant say ataru sucks when yoda and sidious use it

You know, I was going to pwn your argument, Darthsith, but I realized that you still haven't gotten over that ONE LINE from the TPM novel. You don't seem to see that A) you didn't provide me with an adequate reason for a Jedi master to be tired.... B ) you didn't pay attention to Qui-Gon's fighting style and you obviously know NOTHING of melee combat, or else you would not be poo-pooing my observations, and C) you have proved... NOTHING!.

So please, do try again. And use something besides "Qui-Gon is clearly as good as Person X" and "I have teh TPM novel's ONE LINE that supports my bias theory."

A) you didn't provide me with an adequate reason for a Jedi master to be tired....

Aristokrat, your the one that has prooved nothing. The TPM novel states something and you just assume it's wrong. You have to proof that it is.

Originally posted by darthsith19
What? Didn't you watch the movie? Didn't you hear Lightsnake?

Aristokrat, your the one that has prooved nothing. The TPM novel states something and you just assume it's wrong. You have to proof that it is.

So he got tired after fighting for eight minutes?

Wow. He must really suck then, because jedi as noted in other forms of EU practice religiously in saber combat. It would be like Mike Tyson being tired and unable to box properly in the third round. It makes no sense, and there's no evidence for it. Hence, pwned.

Second, I'm pointing out what is clear and evident- Qui-Gon's defense was piss-poor. Obi-Wan realized this, hence why he went with Soresu after this point in time. If you expect me to believe that someone with as poor of a defense as Qui-Gon is as good as Mace Windu in saber combat, you are deluded. Like I said, you obviously know nothing of melee combat- Qui-Gon Jinn could NOT penetrate Maul's easy going defense. And when Maul turned the tables, Qui-Gon was on his heels, barely able to keep his lightsaber in place in time to block the next attack. The fact that he was caught with his lightsaber over his head and got punched in the chin, and immedaitely afterwards Maul does a rather flashy finishing move, just goes to show me (As it should everyone) that Qui-Gon SUCKED in saber combat. Period.

You expect me to believe in one line from the TPM novel, which states that Qui-Gon Jinn's powers are rivalled only by Mace's or some such shit, and here Qui-Gon Jinn is clearly and evidently terrible at combat. Here's your argument in a nutshell:

1- TPM novel sez Qui-Gon = Mace Windu.
2- We don't see Mace Windu fight.
3- So rationally there's nothing to support this assertion.
4- The TPM novel MUST be infallible and beyond reproach.

Therefore, Qui-Gon = Mace in lightsaber skill and all others who oppose this must prove otherwise.

... Right. Nice work, Darthsith. You invented the logical fallacy!

So he got tired after fighting for eight minutes?

Wow. He must really suck then, because jedi as noted in other forms of EU practice religiously in saber combat. It would be like Mike Tyson being tired and unable to box properly in the third round. It makes no sense, and there's no evidence for it. Hence, pwned.

Qui-Gon's defense was piss-poor.

Obi-Wan realized this, hence why he went with Soresu after this point in time.

If you expect me to believe that someone with as poor of a defense as Qui-Gon is as good as Mace Windu in saber combat, you are deluded.

Qui-Gon Jinn could NOT penetrate Maul's easy going defense.

he fact that he was caught with his lightsaber over his head and got punched in the chin, and immedaitely afterwards Maul does a rather flashy finishing move, just goes to show me (As it should everyone) that Qui-Gon SUCKED in saber combat. Period.

1- TPM novel sez Qui-Gon = Mace Windu.

3- So rationally there's nothing to support this assertion.