Magneto the Juggernaut vs The JLA

Originally posted by demigawd
Earth to Shi'ar space good enough for you? Look it up. 😉

And I don't even have to work THAT hard this time...Juggernaut, at potential, was able to traverse dimensions. So Maggernaut now TWO ways of returning.

Wormhole's a wormhole. Tell it to open, specify a destination, and you're on your way. Simple enough.

We know how wormholes work in the Marvel Universe...and in the DC universe, for that matter. And again, he went through Shi'ar space instantly.

'fraid not. But thanks for playing!

The problem is, as soon as you give anyone 5 dimensional powers e.g. Wormholes, they become unbeatable without some form of PIS. If they have made him out of energy as well, then he might as well start banging on the door of the 'White Room', offering Jean a challenge.

Kyle can just will all magnetic energy to break down. Basically voiding any attacks of Magneto.

Then it's basically that team vs Juggernaught in the shape a frail old man.
He gets whooped fairly easily.

Originally posted by demigawd
[B]Earth to Shi'ar space good enough for you? Look it up. 😉

Jeez, now you're just plain lying. Zero respect for you at this point.

And I don't even have to work THAT hard this time...Juggernaut, at potential, was able to traverse dimensions. So Maggernaut now TWO ways of returning.

Again, lying, speaking out of context. You're such a Magneto whore it's not even funny. Juggernaut had ZERO spacial movement despite whatever dimensional barriers were broken in a ONE-TIME SMvFL feat.

Wormhole's a wormhole. Tell it to open, specify a destination, and you're on your way. Simple enough.

And again, you being a whore. Based on your argument, Stargates ought freely open across infinite space. Nightcrawler can 'port across galaxies. And Magneto's Earth EM-field inversion works outside of Earth's EM field.

We know how wormholes work in the Marvel Universe...and in the DC universe, for that matter. And again, he went through Shi'ar space instantly.

Yes, and for that matter they've all been show to have range, speed, and location limitations. And again, you're just lying.

I can't believe you're such a **** to make up feats to pleasure your preferred character. Sick.

Originally posted by R.O.T. Yahman
The problem is, as soon as you give anyone 5 dimensional powers e.g. Wormholes, they become unbeatable without some form of PIS. If they have made him out of energy as well, then he might as well start banging on the door of the 'White Room', offering Jean a challenge.

Well, damn, any number of DC characters have wormhole powers. I don't see anybody crying foul about them!

Originally posted by Juntai
Kyle can just will all magnetic energy to break down. Basically voiding any attacks of Magneto.

Then it's basically that team vs Juggernaught in the shape a frail old man.
He gets whooped fairly easily.

The power of Cytorrak can get past even GL plot devices. The gem includes massive energy projection capabilities of magical nature. And magic out-plot devices even Oan energy!

Originally posted by Demas
Jeez, now you're just plain lying. Zero respect for you at this point.

Respect? I don't even know who you are, hahaha.

Check X-men: The End. The wormhole reaches Shi'ar space.

Again, lying, speaking out of context. You're such a Magneto whore it's not even funny. Juggernaut had ZERO spacial movement despite whatever dimensional barriers were broken in a ONE-TIME SMvFL feat.

If you can break across dimensional barriers, then spatial movements mean nothing. Sorry!

And again, you being a whore. Based on your argument, Stargates ought freely open across infinite space. Nightcrawler can 'port across galaxies. And Magneto's Earth EM-field inversion works outside of Earth's EM field.

We already know NC's range. We've seen Magneto's wormhole reach Shi'ar space. We've seen wormholes reach across the universe.

Precedent! Look it up. 😉

Yes, and for that matter they've all been show to have range, speed, and location limitations. And again, you're just lying.

No they haven't. It goes where the wielder wishes to go. The only time limitations are shown are when someone uses someone else's wormholes...like a natural one. Look it up. 😉

I can't believe you're such a **** to make up feats to pleasure your preferred character. Sick.

You seem the happy sort.

Originally posted by demigawd
[B]Well, damn, any number of DC characters have wormhole powers. I don't see anybody crying foul about them!

Executed regularly under normal circumstances. For Magneto, not only do you have to question whether the abilities originated with Magneto to begin with- or, more likely, coming from his wacky daughter Wanda; there's the issue of him performing it at variable levels of power and basically only once. Completely SMvFL.

The power of Cytorrak can get past even GL plot devices. The gem includes massive energy projection capabilities of magical nature. And magic out-plot devices even Oan energy!

Outside of the Juggs one-shot, never again. Complete SMvFL.

isn't the end AU?

Originally posted by Demas
Executed regularly under normal circumstances. For Magneto, not only do you have to question whether the abilities originated with Magneto to begin with- or, more likely, coming from his wacky daughter Wanda; there's the issue of him performing it at variable levels of power and basically only once. Completely SMvFL.

Someone hasn't been keeping up on comics over the past couple of weeks.

It's pretty clear that Magneto was meant to be able to do that with his own power. Read the issue and you'll see that the implications are clear.

Outside of the Juggs one-shot, never again. Complete SMvFL.

Again, you missed the point (you do that a lot...must be all that yelling). The point was that Juggernaut was functioning at his potential at that point, but CIS prevents that (mainly, he's an idiot). This is a hypothetical character - Magneto using the power of Juggernaut. That means he'll apply his genius intellect to mastering the gem. That means high showers for Juggy are on the table.

So while I wouldn't use those feats for a straight up Juggernaut fight, I would use that for someone like Doom or Reed or Magneto or Xavier or even Batman using the gem, because there's a clear view of what the gem is really capable of in non-idiot hands.

Originally posted by Superherovandal
isn't the end AU?

It's a possible alternate timeline. It's not a What If. Therefore things that happen in are valid Marvel science.

Originally posted by demigawd
[B]Respect? I don't even know who you are, hahaha.

A person pointing out what a whore you are so that everyone's respect for you will dwindle to nothing.

Check X-men: The End. The wormhole reaches Shi'ar space.

If you can break across dimensional barriers, then spatial movements mean nothing. Sorry!

We already know NC's range. We've seen Magneto's wormhole reach Shi'ar space. We've seen wormholes reach across the universe.

No, you've "seen" a future Magneto go from known point to known point. You've used this to make current powered Magneto port unlimited range to unknown points (which, by the by, completely violates the principle of a wormhole), beyond galactic space.

No they haven't. It goes where the wielder wishes to go.

So basically you're chosing to ignore all the portal and 'porting characters except for one out-of-continuity Mags you've invented to project onto this battle. You're an embarassment with no credibility.

Originally posted by demigawd
Well, damn, any number of DC characters have wormhole powers. I don't see anybody crying foul about them!

Originally posted by The Ion
Good point. I'm gonna start using that one in GL threads. 💃

Why not? You damn GL fans use everything else....

Originally posted by demigawd
It's a possible alternate timeline. It's not a What If. Therefore things that happen in are valid Marvel science.

Then KC Flash is default Flash.
Puh-leez.
The fact is you're never going to post Magneto wormhole scans because anyone looking at them can plainly see that you're expanding them way beyond what is explicitly on the page.

Originally posted by demigawd
[B]Someone hasn't been keeping up on comics over the past couple of weeks.

All that's clear is that you're talking out of your ass. The issue makes it clear that it's a feat executed in tandem with other powers and factors. Yet you're whoring it to work on his own power under any circumstance, range, distance, and speed. Ridiculous.

Again, you missed the point (you do that a lot...must be all that yelling). The point was that Juggernaut was functioning at his potential at that point, but CIS prevents that (mainly, he's an idiot).

And you missed the point of 8th Day Juggernaut since it had NOTHING to do with his intellect, his power-up was EXPLICITLY explained. I mean if you're going to start accepting non-canon alts, then the time Xavier gained the gem, his showing were NOWHERE near 8th-Day Juggernauts.

Originally posted by Demas
The fact is you're never going to post Magneto wormhole scans because anyone looking at them can plainly see that you're expanding them way beyond what is explicitly on the page.

The difference between a What If/Elseworlds and an alternate future is that we know the source of the alteration. It's not a made up story done solely to make a pre-determined conclusion work in a single issue. There's no reason to dismiss an alternate future written by the regular X-men writer at his own pace, based on developments in his own storyline in 616. It makes plain all his intentions. X-men: The End is like DOFP, and any feats that take place then are true to the characters.

Bottom line - the science behind wormholes don't change simply because it happened in a possible future. If the guy who gave Magneto that power in the first place later states that those powers are used to instantaneously travel across the universe...that's how the powers work. You can complain if you want to, but I'm just telling it like it is.

All that's clear is that you're talking out of your ass. The issue makes it clear that it's a feat executed in tandem with other powers and factors. Yet you're whoring it to work on his own power under any circumstance, range, distance, and speed. Ridiculous.

Afraid not. No other factors. He used Polaris to remain as an anchor to allow traffice to pass back and forth, but even after she died, Magneto re-established it on his own.

It really is that simple.

And you missed the point of 8th Day Juggernaut since it had NOTHING to do with his intellect, his power-up was EXPLICITLY explained. I mean if you're going to start accepting non-canon alts, then the time Xavier gained the gem, his showing were NOWHERE near 8th-Day Juggernauts.

His power-up WAS explicitly explained....it wasn't a power up. It was Juggernaut being possessed by a being who used the full power of the gem. It was stated.

Originally posted by demigawd
[B]The difference between a What If/Elseworlds and an alternate future is that we know the source of the alteration. It's not a made up story done solely to make a pre-determined conclusion work in a single issue. There's no reason to dismiss an alternate future written by the regular X-men writer at his own pace, based on developments in his own storyline in 616. It makes plain all his intentions. X-men: The End is like DOFP, and any feats that take place then are true to the characters.

Who's talking about Elseworlds? KC is an alternate future.

Bottom line - the science behind wormholes don't change simply because it happened in a possible future. If the guy who gave Magneto that power in the first place later states that those powers are used to instantaneously travel across the universe...that's how the powers work. You can complain if you want to, but I'm just telling it like it is.

Bottom line, TE feat is completely invalid to all but those who suck-on Erik's mutant-hood.

Afraid not. No other factors. He used Polaris to remain as an anchor to allow traffice to pass back and forth, but even after she died, Magneto re-established it on his own.

Read the issue you whore. He explictly states he tracks her signature and she explicitly states that they not only die in the process but that it's based on planetary fields.

Even if you want to be a TOTAL WHORE and use TE as a usable feat, Kyle sends Magneto to the end of the universe and he's dead. Period. He has no daughter to anchor him, no known target or telepathic guide-rod, no planetary EM field to manipulate. He's simply stuck in the dead of space with no way to navigate.

I can't believe you lie so easily, it's ridiculous.

Originally posted by Demas
Who's talking about Elseworlds? KC is an alternate future.

No, you're lying. First of all, Wanda appears blatantly before the first feat making it highly suspect to begin with. Second, even if one wants to accept a highly spurious TE feat, with Magneto's history of imposters and power-ups there is NO way to acertain that the one performing the feat is the one and only Magneto nor is it possible to state he is doing it under his own power absent a future yet-here-to-untold powerup, just like KC Flash.

Bottom line, TE feat is completely invalid to all but those who suck-on Erik's mutant-hood.

Read the issue you whore. He explictly states he tracks her signature and she explicitly states that they not only die in the process but that it's based on planetary fields.

Even if you want to be a TOTAL WHORE and use TE as a usable feat, Kyle sends Magneto to the end of the universe and he's dead. Period. He has no daughter to anchor him, no known target or telepathic guide-rod, no planetary EM field to manipulate. He's simply stuck in the dead of space with no way to navigate.

I can't believe you lie so easily, it's ridiculous.

😱 😑

Originally posted by Demas
Who's talking about Elseworlds? KC is an alternate future.

And if a KC character performs a feat that he performed in the main DCU a different way, then it stands to reason he can do it in the DCU...he just hasn't.

Either way, my point stands. If he created a wormhole in 616, and he created a wormhole in TE, the only difference being where it goes, then clearly, the wormhole doesn't have an established max range.

No, you're lying. First of all, Wanda appears blatantly before the first feat making it highly suspect to begin with.

Talk about lying. Wanda doesn't at all appear before the first feat. If you actually read comics, you'd know that Magneto opened the wormhole specifically to GET Wanda. She KO'ed way over in NYC before Magneto opened the wormhole to get her. So there's nothing suspect about it.

The very next issue of Excalibur was devoted almost entirely to explaining the true nature of magneto's power and how he's always been able to perform such feats, just aways held back. Clearly if Wanda was the reason, the writer would not have gone to such lengths to justify those feats. He would have left it a mystery.

Furthermore, if the same feat is performed by the same character written by the same writer, and Wanda is long dead in the second story, then CLEARLY Magneto was meant to be capable of such a feat.

Stop being obstinate and put two and two together.

Second, even if one wants to accept a highly spurious TE feat, with Magneto's history of imposters and power-ups there is NO way to acertain that the one performing the feat is the one and only Magneto nor is it possible to state he is doing it under his own power absent a future yet-here-to-untold powerup, just like KC Flash.

That would be a valid point except when you look at the broader message here. The broader message is that it's a continuation of the same basic explorations in Excalibur where it IS Magneto and it IS his powers.

Use some common sense.

Bottom line, TE feat is completely invalid to all but those who suck-on Erik's mutant-hood.

Senseless statement. You're not very good at this, are you?

*yawn*

Read the issue you whore. He explictly states he tracks her signature and she explicitly states that they not only die in the process but that it's based on planetary fields.

Um...not even close. I understand the problem now...you don't know how to read.

The wormhole was closed. Magneto was actually able to communicate ACROSS THE UNIVERSE to bring Lorna back to life. So that means he was able to use a planetary magnetic field WHILE NOT EVEN ON THE PLANET.

Even if you want to be a TOTAL WHORE and use TE as a usable feat, Kyle sends Magneto to the end of the universe and he's dead. Period. He has no daughter to anchor him, no known target or telepathic guide-rod, no planetary EM field to manipulate. He's simply stuck in the dead of space with no way to navigate.

Except, as you yourself noted, he can communicate with magnetic fields from anywhere and make use of them from anywhere. Magneto just comes right back and proceeds to own the JLA with both magical and energetic attacks.

I can't believe you lie so easily, it's ridiculous.

That statement would hold a lot more weight if you actually cited a lie I told. As such, you're all hot air. Maybe you'd feel more comfortable on, like, a Wolverine thread or something.

Originally posted by demigawd
Well, damn, any number of DC characters have wormhole powers. I don't see anybody crying foul about them!

I cry myself to sleep about it every night ..... 🙁

Although apart from G.L, who else has Wormhole powers ? 🙂