Originally posted by Alpha CentauriActually it amounted to the point that illegal file sharing has more of a positive impact on indie bands than a negative one, regaurdless of if it's right or wrong. Which was my point in the first post as well. Once again, not defending it on an individual level.
Yes but all that pretty post amounted to was "People will do it, it's wrong, but they'll do it." Which I never denied and yes, if people gain their first taste through illegal downloading and cancel that out by paying, fair enough. That, believe it or not, is the minority.-AC
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Actually it amounted to the point that illegal file sharing has more of a positive impact on indie bands than a negative one, regaurdless of if it's right or wrong. Which was my point in the first post as well. Once again, not defending it on an individual level.
Illegal file sharing is a positive for indie bands? I don't think you've thought this through.
"Indie" bands now have to sell well over half a million records to even begin to make profit, maybe more nowadays, due to illegal file sharing.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Illegal file sharing is a positive for indie bands? I don't think you've thought this through."Indie" bands now have to sell well over half a million records to even begin to make profit, maybe more nowadays, due to illegal file sharing.
-AC
^wrong
they dont need to sell that much. lol @ you posting bullshit and making it look like gospel truth. u might "know' music but you dont know the music biz.
an indie producer usually makes 6$ every one unit sold and the artist gets 4$. so just imagine an LP sells 80,000 copies (ex. the realness) thats 80k x 4$ = 240,000. that's 240,000 dollars.
now lets say you master p... mia x's mama drama was certified platinum, so thats 1m x 6$ = 6,000,000 dollars. now that's some cake.
on the real, if you wanna make it big in the industry it's best you go indy instead of whoring yourselves out to the major label execs, who'll milk you out for all your worth... except if they offer you a million-dollar contract.
Originally posted by #16
^wrongthey dont need to sell that much. lol @ you posting bullshit and making it look like gospel truth. u might "know' music but you dont know the music biz.
Not actually wrong, both proving you and your following claim wrong. Though I'll allow this to continue.
Originally posted by #16
an indie producer usually makes 6$ every one unit sold and the artist gets 4$. so just imagine an LP sells 80,000 copies (ex. the realness) thats 80k x 4$ = 240,000. that's 240,000 dollars.
That was a reasonably well known artist though, it wasn't an indie artist was it? He wasn't going around struggling, getting music fans to come to his shows. He was famous for many things in the lower end of the mainstream circuit.
Originally posted by #16
now lets say you master p... mia x's mama drama was certified platinum, so thats 1m x 6$ = 6,000,000 dollars. now that's some cake.
Go on...waiting for your point here. Comparing "MC's" who can afford to have a mouthful of platinum to a band touring their hometown and surrounding areas in a van, struggling to make profit because they have to pay their label and compensate for "fans" stealing from them, isn't a good way to go, but continue.
Originally posted by #16
on the real, if you wanna make it big in the industry it's best you go indy instead of whoring yourselves out to the major label execs, who'll milk you out for all your worth... except if they offer you a million-dollar contract.
I swear reading your posts is like watching a bunch of dudes trying to hump a keyboard. All that comes out is a mess and letters.
If your GOAL is to be famous (successful is different) then whoring yourself is what you do, and it's a disgrace. All those American Idol esque people.
MF Doom is successful, Cannibal Ox are successful. On the other hand, Radiohead are successful, Metallica are one of the biggest selling bands of all time and they reached that point before any of the Load stuff happened (which doesn't matter to me anyway), on a major. Opeth had 7 albums on various indie labels from 96 to 2005 before they signed to a major and nothing bad has happened. Infact, they even had bad cases with their indie label claiming rights to songs.
Majors may be, in comparison, worse overall than indie labels, but that's not always the case. Majors get a bad rep and indies get a better rep than they sometimes deserve. Infact, that's where a lot of the worst rip offs happen.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha CentauriWell the logic behind my point would be that indie bands gain a worldwide fan base through file sharing. A lot of these fans do end up supporting the band financially, a lot of them don't. Even the ones who DON'T pay the band in any way whatsoever are only denying them of a profit they wouldn't have had a chance at without file sharing anyway. None of these people would have heard of this band if their music wasn't freely distributed throughout the internet and promoted on forums like this one. They basically would've been limited to the select few who'd be willing to purchase an album based on a review or audioclip from the band's website.
Illegal file sharing is a positive for indie bands? I don't think you've thought this through.
"Indie" bands now have to sell well over half a million records to even begin to make profit, maybe more nowadays, due to illegal file sharing.Why is that?-AC
Let's see, if we ban file sharing then that means less exposure to indie artits and equals less money that indie artists make (at least for me because i know i wouldn't just go around buying stuff that i haven't heard). And on the mainstream side, it's pretty much the status quo, we'll continue to get crap music playing in the mainstream media outlets.
So now that i think about it, we're pretty much screwed either way. The general public will continue to listen to uninspired music. Fin.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Well the logic behind my point would be that indie bands gain a worldwide fan base through file sharing. A lot of these fans do end up supporting the band financially, a lot of them don't. Even the ones who DON'T pay the band in any way whatsoever are only denying them of a profit they wouldn't have had a chance at without file sharing anyway. None of these people would have heard of this band if their music wasn't freely distributed throughout the internet and promoted on forums like this one. They basically would've been limited to the select few who'd be willing to purchase an album based on a review or audioclip from the band's website.
I don't buy that safe-route "A lot of them do, a lot don't." More don't than the amount that do, it's a fact. Hence why it's such a financial problem.
If you download it and don't pay the band, you have their property on your computer that they should have your money for, they don't. How is there any attempt at justifying this? What good has the exposure done? Someone now has a copy of their album for free in a manner they do not wish to have it distributed. If that person didn't know about them, they're not gaining, but they're not losing. If someone knows about them, steals their album and doesn't pay them, what do they get? Nothing. They LOSE an album sale. "Hey! I love your band!" "Sweet! Got our album?" "Yeah...downloaded it." "Wha-what? Dude, buy it." "Why? What's the point?" "Support us." "I am, go you guys!" Yeah, doesn't do much. Your logic is extremely flawed.
"If they don't know about the band, it's the same as them knowing and not paying." It's not is it? No. Stupid.
Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Why is that?
Because people illegally download the albums, burn them for friends, who burn them for friends and RE-upload them for other P2P file sharers. That's how it works and that's how it's become a huge problem. It seriously demeans sales.
Originally posted by Refused
Let's see, if we ban file sharing then that means less exposure to indie artits and equals less money that indie artists make (at least for me because i know i wouldn't just go around buying stuff that i haven't heard). And on the mainstream side, it's pretty much the status quo, we'll continue to get crap music playing in the mainstream media outlets.
So now that i think about it, we're pretty much screwed either way. The general public will continue to listen to uninspired music. Fin
You made no point here, at all. Money doesn't get LOST by banning file sharing. People will end up having to buy the music, or even if they don't, the band will at least be keeping the money they earn of record sales and ticket sales. Rather than people stealing their album.
The idea isn't for them to make MORE money, it's for them to get the money they deserve by influencing people to pay for the music.
I don't understand the debate. If you want something you should pay for it unless it is legally free, eg: Supermarket free samples.
-AC
Man I don't know how many artists there are that wouldn't have ever gotten a dime from me if it wasn't for file sharing. CD's, shows, shirts, ect. It can be good and bad. Mostly bad for the big mainstream acts, and help for independent artists trying to get their music out there. I think we all know that.
As the homie Murs said, I don't care if you d/l my music. Just support if you like what you hear. Sounds fair enough.
The greater good, in your opinion, is the fall of all majors. There couldn't be a worse thing to happen.
If all the shit music was gone, what would the idiots latch onto? Exactly. Keep Kelly Clarkson, Chris Brown and all these talentless idiots out there, let the majors push them, let the kids and idiots pay for it. Keeps them away from the Tool, Radiohead etc.
Any true music fan knows that bad music has its purpose.
Originally posted by D00m
Man I don't know how many artists there are that wouldn't have ever gotten a dime from me if it wasn't for file sharing. CD's, shows, shirts, ect. It can be good and bad. Mostly bad for the big mainstream acts, and help for intendant artists trying to get their music out there. I think we all know that.As the homie Murs said, I don't care if you d/l my music. Just support if you like what you hear. Sounds fair enough.
Yes Doom, you support artists and that's cool. I'm not popping at people who support artists. I don't understand why people think it's a GOOD thing to hurt the majors.
A) You couldn't hurt the majors, they've got many puppets to make money off. You're hurting the great musicians who ARE on majors as a result.
B) They are keeping shit music out there, but that's keeping the shit people away from material they aren't willing to seek out. Which is good.
Doom, you sound like a guy who is proud of true hip hop, real music with a purpose. As much as you love sharing your hip hop recommendations with those on this site who don't know much more but are GENUINELY willing to learn and seek, how would you feel if every Joe Nobody started saying "Yeah man, Can Ox!" Then began ripping the hell out of them, stealing their music and moreover, not even appreciating them as much as those who sought them out? Do you see my point? Yes, it's elitist, but it's true and I think you can see that.
If you download and then pay for what you hear, fine. Fine with me. My only request beyond paying is that to all the downloaders: Don't say any music sucks, you're getting it for free. You have nothing to complain about.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Because people illegally download the albums, burn them for friends, who burn them for friends and RE-upload them for other P2P file sharers. That's how it works and that's how it's become a huge problem. It seriously demeans sales.-AC
Woah, woah now, that doesn't make sense. Why should the need to sell more albums then before? It's possible that it is much harder to sell the CDs nowadays.
Or do you mean that the CDs are cheaper nowadays?
Exactly, it's harder to sell CDs because people are downloading it all.
The record industry are being caught in a catch 22. They can't raise prices because people ALREADY moan that $9 CDs are too expensive, they can't lower them because then there'd be no profit, which is needed.
People just need to start sacrificing a little and spending money on more music. It's not hard is it? Paying for music you love.
-AC
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The greater good, in your opinion, is the fall of all majors. There couldn't be a worse thing to happen.If all the shit music was gone, what would the idiots latch onto? Exactly. Keep Kelly Clarkson, Chris Brown and all these talentless idiots out there, let the majors push them, let the kids and idiots pay for it. Keeps them away from the Tool, Radiohead etc.
Any true music fan knows that bad music has its purpose.
-AC
I don't know. I still don't think those people would feel Radiohead, MF Doom, ect. Sure, they'll gain more fans from the exposure, but the same Kelly Clarkson fans will still like crappy music. How can somebody go from Brilliant (radiohead) to lame (insert artist here)?
Originally posted by D00m
I don't know. I still don't think those people would feel Radiohead, MF Doom, ect. Sure, they'll gain more fans from the exposure, but the same Kelly Clarkson fans will still like crappy music. How can somebody go from Brilliant (radiohead) to lame (insert artist here)?
I edited my post for your reply.
On this however, I do agree. However, that's exactly my point. I don't want some idiot who has no clue about Radiohead saying "Yeah Radiohead! OMG! Radiohead!" I mean, most of me doesn't care, I do my own thing and don't really pay attention. I does irk me though. It's like, if Can Ox were everyone's favs tomorrow and YOU KNEW that hardly anyone on TRL understood them, you'd be thinking "Now hang on, where were you back in the day? You don't appreciate them, you just like them cos they're popular."
-AC
Originally posted by D00m
I don't know. I still don't think those people would feel Radiohead, MF Doom, ect. Sure, they'll gain more fans from the exposure, but the same Kelly Clarkson fans will still like crappy music. How can somebody go from Brilliant (radiohead) to lame (insert artist here)?
Well if there's nothing else they might just do....
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
The greater good, in your opinion, is the fall of all majors. There couldn't be a worse thing to happen.If all the shit music was gone, what would the idiots latch onto? Exactly. Keep Kelly Clarkson, Chris Brown and all these talentless idiots out there, let the majors push them, let the kids and idiots pay for it. Keeps them away from the Tool, Radiohead etc.
Any true music fan knows that bad music has its purpose.
Yes Doom, you support artists and that's cool. I'm not popping at people who support artists. I don't understand why people think it's a GOOD thing to hurt the majors.
A) You couldn't hurt the majors, they've got many puppets to make money off. You're hurting the great musicians who ARE on majors as a result.
B) They are keeping shit music out there, but that's keeping the shit people away from material they aren't willing to seek out. Which is good.
Doom, you sound like a guy who is proud of true hip hop, real music with a purpose. As much as you love sharing your hip hop recommendations with those on this site who don't know much more but are GENUINELY willing to learn and seek, how would you feel if every Joe Nobody started saying "Yeah man, Can Ox!" Then began ripping the hell out of them, stealing their music and moreover, not even appreciating them as much as those who sought them out? Do you see my point? Yes, it's elitist, but it's true and I think you can see that.
If you download and then pay for what you hear, fine. Fine with me. My only request beyond paying is that to all the downloaders: Don't say any music sucks, you're getting it for free. You have nothing to complain about.
-AC
I hear ya man. I know exactly where you're coming from. and honestly, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I was speaking for those who don't abuse file sharing. It bugs the hell out of me that people d/l good music and don't support. I was just saying there are those of us who actually help artists. Although, we are in the minority.
Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
I edited my post for your reply.On this however, I do agree. However, that's exactly my point. I don't want some idiot who has no clue about Radiohead saying "Yeah Radiohead! OMG! Radiohead!" I mean, most of me doesn't care, I do my own thing and don't really pay attention. I does irk me though. It's like, if Can Ox were everyone's favs tomorrow and YOU KNEW that hardly anyone on TRL understood them, you'd be thinking "Now hang on, where were you back in the day? You don't appreciate them, you just like them cos they're popular."
-AC
AC you gettin me depressed man. Just thinkin about these TRL heads listening to Ox and Radiohead only because they're sheep. So I agree with you on that. But I think you're giving them a little too much credit. I still think their taste would suck and they would still find crappy musical acts to follow.
It's like I said before, you voted against Bush I assume? Even if you KNEW your vote wouldn't make the difference and cause him to lose, it was enough to know that when the chips were down, regardless of the outcome, you wanted to know you had made a contribution to bringing about the lesser of two evils, right?
Same as me with downloading. I just like to know that when the chips were down, I put my money where my mouth was and paid for the work. I paid for NIN's With Teeth album and it's a piece of shit. I wouldn't buy it again if I didn't have it, but I'd not download it either. Whilst I HATE that album, I do complain about it, I'd willingly step up to a downloader who was dissing it and say "Well wait, you didn't spend money on it, why are you bitching?"
Originally posted by D00m
AC you gettin me depressed man. Just thinkin about these TRL heads listening to Ox and Radiohead only because they're sheep. So I agree with you on that. But I think you're giving them a little too much credit. I still think their taste would suck and they would still find crappy musical acts to follow.
Absolutely, I agree totally. I'm just saying, it'd suck wouldn't it? Real bad. That whole point was more about how having shit mainstream (for the most part) isn't all bad.
-AC