Top 10 players in NBA History

Wade's through the contradiction and fallacy that is the following argument

Originally posted by Templares
[b]Chronological Snobbery (kran'-uh-laj'-uh-kul snab'-uh-ree) noun. The logical fallacy that something from an earlier time -- be it thinking, art, science, or sport -- is inherently inferior when compared to that of the present.[/B]

Aka Common Sense.

Nah. Youre just a chrono snub. Russell is one athletic person. How many college track and field stars,just like Russell are in the NBA today?

Not many considering the level of athleticism has raised so far up it's nuts and players shifting focus on a particular sport as opposed to risking injury in dabbling in multiple.

Heck how many NBA players today could jump 12 feet away, reach the apex of his jump, go into a downward phase and still clear 6'6"

Just about everyone *watches the streetball tourney hosted by D-Brown*

(and this using an antiquated jumping method even for 50yrs. ago)? Just how many centers today could vert jump 4 feet high and is ambidextrous?

The same amount of centers that weigh less then Kobe.........

😂

Nope. There are plenty of talent in those days, unfortunately for them, they could not adjust fast enough to Russell and the USFDons style of playing. Have i mentioned that the Full Court press that Woolpert's USF Dons started and popularized by Wooden's UCLA Bruins is a staple of championship college basketball even up to now?

Of course there was plenty of talent, it just wasn't good talent.

At a time when defensive paradigms were designed around the set shot and ball control/stalling; hell yes. Have i mentioned something about the Full Court press?

The fact that you talk about the Full court press like it's incredible that they could do it only helps me

Macauley and Willis Reed are so far away from Russell, in what? Skill? 😆

Yup.

The NBA owners are lucky enough to learn from the success and failures of earlier pro-basketball team owners (like those in the defunct ABL and NBL).

Which is why this league is so much better.

First off, lets not forget that the Russell-Macauley/Hagen trade agreement was made even before the actual draft started.

Second, the addition of Macauley and Cliff Hagen not only provided the St. Louis Hawks with a gate attraction for its racially insensitive fans (during those times); it transformed the team into a WINNING team. The Hawks have never went to the NBA Finals before but after the trade they went 4 times in 5 years; winning once and pushing the Celtics to two close seven game series (Game 7 of the 1957 championship went double overtime). Accusing the St. Louis Hawks of poor management because of this trade is like accusing the Houston Rockets of poor management by drafting Hakeem Olajuwon over Michael Jordan in the 1984 draft.

So you call a 20% win ratio good management?

Thats what they all like to say.

That's because it's true.

Nope. Its the fans that are racist, not the Hawks management. This is a social issue which is beyond the management's control.

Wins > race. Just look at the 80's Celtics 😉

Nope. Unlike today, NBA players back in the 50's-60's take dunks as a serious personal insult.

So you are telling me that someone like Artest or even Tim Duncan wouldn't get pissed if Kobe put one in the mouth (NH) and try to get back at him (and it also explains why Wilt used to dunk on everyone and their mother back in the day)?

If you dunk on someone, that person you've dunked over and most of his teammates will get you later in the game with hard fouls.

Happens nowadays too.

In Russell's time, there were no flagrant fouls, fans could just rush into the game and punch/throw something at a player, players foul each other with an elbow or a clothesline to the face etc., these things are common occurence, especially in Mikan's era.

Which in turn is why crappy players like Russell were able to dominate and why the defensive powerhouses of today shit on him so hard, less restrictive defense rules.

Since dunks are just show-off moves and you dont get extra points from doing it, coaches discourage dunking rather than risk his players to be involved in a physical scuffle.

Dunks...........only show off moves....................... 🤣

Call that crappy coaching.

Why not mention the fact that until 1940s basketball was considered a sport better suited to shorter men than to TALLER, less nimble players?

Because it only helps my crappy management/lesser knowledge/crappy coaching argument............ 💃

This guy at 6'3" could dunk from the free throw line during pre-game practice.

Considering dunking from the freethrow line was unheard of until Dr. J did it, I'd say that's more overrexageration then anything.

Athleticism in the NBA in the 60's and even in the 50's are not lacking, they just dont show it off.

🤣

That's like saying, Michael Jordan CAN FLY he just DOESN'T SHOW IT because his crappy coaches WON'T LET HIM!

You just like to underestimate older teams. Youre a chronosnub after all.

What's a chronosnub? Is that like chronosnob except with the u representing having common sense?

Russell lack athletic showing? Havent i mentioned that he is the original alley-oop finisher?

BUT THEY DIDN'T DUNK BACK IN THE DAY OMG (btw calling him the original alley oop finisher only helps my crappy era argument)!

Havent i mentioned that Russell could grab a rebound and throw a pass all in one motion?

OMG SOMEONE GIVE HIM A MEDAL! HE CAN DO SOMETHING THAT I'VE SEEN RASHO NASTEROVICH DO!

Second, i wasnt aware that Cousy was the best passer ever; still though he has a strong claim to that title.

Not even close.

Pistol Pete grew up EMULATING Cousy's superb passing skills

Omg and Jordan grew up EMULATING Dr. J's superb everything skills, let's put Dr. J in the same league as Jordan in everything now!

and Cooz did it at an NBA era where if " . . . . he tries that fancy Dan stuff in this league, they'll cram the ball down his throat."

Shows how weak the basketball knowledge was.

In the 60's, big men simply weren't allowed to dribble the ball.

Funny because we all know big men take the ball up court in this day and age!

Thats just suppose to be the job of a guard.

Yep because we all know the big man has replaced the guard in the art of dribbling in this day and age!

If necessary, Russell would have mastered dribbling, similar to when he mastered hook shots and passing with his weak (right hand) hand, but the team doesnt need it.

Because we all know that if you can learn to shoot somewhat decently you can automatically learn to dribble somewhat decently because it's all like the same thing!

😆 @ horrible talent. The Russell-era Celtics is a well balanced team;

Didn't those Russell teams have like half of the HoF's of that era? GREAT talent dispersal! Btw I was comparing talent back then to today.

it doesnt have a player in the list of top 10 scorers but it has 7-6 guys averaging in double digits.

Because the Phoenix Suns/Dallas Mavericks don't have near that in the era of defense wins championships 🙄

Russell DOESNT NEED to score but he's 15.1 career average often makes him the 3rd leading scorer for the Celtics in a team whose highest scorer averages around 22points

Russell doesn't need to score because he has a team of HoF'rs and played in a shitty league.

IIRC, aside from stats in steals and blocks, those voting for all defensive team also factor in the impact of the defender to the opposing player mainly on his FG%.

WOW BOWEN HAS ONE STATISTIC OVER MILES! GIVE THIS MAN A MEDAL!

Stats =/= defensive prowess.

Hell players like Elmore Smith who holds many block records, is considered a poor defender because he often leaves his man wide open just so he could get a block.

Which is why stats =/= defensive prowess.

Even in a run and gun era, Russell's a center, so naturally assists aint one going to be among his highest stats. He's career 4.3 isnt bad especially when you factor in the fact that he played in an era where assists were only awarded for field goals made without a dribble, unlike today.

You make it seem like it's hard to get an assist when you play in a league full of 06 Phoenix Suns and spend 99% of your time on the court standing 5 feet away from the basket and consider something as simple as a full court press REVOLUTIONARY!

Comparing the Big O's (2nd? 3rd?) highest rebounding average against the Diesel's lowest rebounding average (from an injury plague 2k5-2k6 season), is a SKEWED way of trying to prove your point

What? That going by stats there was a point in Oscar's career where he was a better rebounder then Shaq at a certain point in his career?

First off, Basketball knowledge and developments enhances a player skills and performance. These things are tied to the time/era the player is in and not to the player's skill.

Which is why old timers are inferior.

Old timers dont suck; they usually have better basketball fundamentals than most players today.

Less dunking/grammar school level passing =/= "better basketball fundamentals"

Russell's a fast learner. Havent i mentioned already how he trained his right hand to shoot and pass the ball?

Because we all know that all it takes to be a good player is learning to be a switch handed passer and shooter (a skill that even I'm adept at).

Yep Kobe would be doing dunks in games at a time when dunks are discouraged.

Yup, just like how Wilt never dunked the ball, Elgin Baylor is always bashed for being a high flyer, and Bill wasn't the "original alley oop finisher" and how Kobe already dunks the ball more then maybe twice a game. 🙄

Yep Russell (and his coach) will NOT take advantage of modern training and nutrition to gain weight nor will they curb his tendencies to throwup his lunch before every game.

So wait, Russell had these techniques when he was playing or are you giving him the magical ability to adapt to the current play and not lose a step even though the best you can come up with is something that they practice in the YMCA basketball leagues (playing switch-handed).

For fun and games

http://www.82games.com/random22.htm

Kobe Bryant only averages about .6 DPG

Such a huge part of his game will be missed playing in the Russell era

Originally posted by B dot Rob
OMG SOMEONE GIVE HIM A MEDAL! HE CAN DO SOMETHING THAT I'VE SEEN RASHO NASTEROVICH DO!

WOW BOWEN HAS ONE STATISTIC OVER MILES! GIVE THIS MAN A MEDAL!

Stats =/= defensive prowess.

yeah, give it up for the crazy dude who really likes to OVEREXAGGERATE! Comparing the athletism of Russell, which is considered outstanding even in the videos you gave us, to Rasho is anything but logical. Good use of weak sarcasm, too. 🙄

as for bowen, he's a better defender than miles. if you've ever see the two defend, bowen stays in front of his men (who btw are a lot harder to handle) far longer than miles does. miles gets more blocks because of his height, and more steals because of his long wingspan. Zaza Pachulia averaged more blocks and steals than bowen. do you mean to tell me that he was a better defender than bowen?

I would trade Miles for Bowen's in a heart beat. Miles has no sense of how to stick with his man. He is athletic and that is about it. I wish I could see extended versions of Miles's steals stats. Like how many steals are off dribble vs off pass (I'm pretty sure they are almost all stealing passes). Then I would like to see stats on how many times Miles's lunging for passes to steal result in not getting the steal and leaving an open man for an easier basket than Miles would have got himself. Also, I have NEVER seen somebody brick as many dunks as Miles has in my life. I get scared whenever I see Miles on a break because he is so eager to make a highlight real that he throws the ball down with too much strength to control where it goes.

To sum up Miles, this is a good equation:
Intelligence = Pile of poop

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
yeah, give it up for the crazy dude who really likes to OVEREXAGGERATE! Comparing the athletism of Russell, which is considered outstanding even in the videos you gave us, to Rasho is anything but logical. Good use of weak sarcasm, too. 🙄

No, it just shows how retarded it is to say WOMG MID AIR PASS THAT'S SOME TOP 10 SHIT RIGHT THURRRRRR!

as for bowen, he's a better defender than miles. if you've ever see the two defend, bowen stays in front of his men (who btw are a lot harder to handle) far longer than miles does. miles gets more blocks because of his height, and more steals because of his long wingspan. Zaza Pachulia averaged more blocks and steals than bowen. do you mean to tell me that he was a better defender than bowen?

So you agree that stats aren't the end all be all way of determining who's the better player. Great.

Wow you guys have been arguing for ages.

Originally posted by B dot Rob
So you agree that stats aren't the end all be all way of determining who's the better player. Great.

i never said stats were the "end all be all way" of determining who's better. i said stats are the most credible way, but you also have to watch the players actually play. i was defending stats, because you were completely ignoring them by showing highlight flims.

Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Wow you guys have been arguing for ages.

8 pages to be exact.

Originally posted by RecSpecs110
i never said stats were the "end all be all way" of determining who's better. i said stats are the most credible way, but you also have to watch the players actually play. i was defending stats, because you were completely ignoring them by showing highlight flims.

If by ignoring you meant point out the inflation of the era and show how crappy the play was then yup I ignored them. And you pretty much said

Russell > Miles STATS LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

nope, i meant ignoring stats as in knowing that stats was a big factor in determining that russell is better than miles, but at the same time, denying it in any possible way from highlight films to bullshit about eras and whatnot. thats what i meant when i said you ignored stats. Trying to win a pointless argument with weak supportive details.

lol at pointing out the facts being "weak supportive details"

nope, i use facts. you use highlight flims and your opinions. 🙄

yup, because we all know 210 lb Centers are the definition of dominance in today's league.

never said that. you said miles is better than russell by showing highlight films(that were actually bad).

I said he was better by the way they play, competition, and skills they displayed and showed highlights to emphasize how much better he looked. You said Russell's better because he could dominate the non-athletic/garbage athletes of his era and because of the stat inflation because of it.

nope never said that. making something up (once again), completely out of context. Wow, you lie so much, your own mother shouldn't trust you.

So you didn't just say Russell is better then Miles because of stats despite the fact that you just called stats the most credible way of determing who's better and your whole argument has been stats lol?

🤣

Oh and you had a whole argument on Russell's defense being better based on BPG and SPG?

i made up the argument about his stats, of course i did, but not the garbage era crap that YOU made up.

whic is true, russell's defense AND offense are both better than miles. thanks for assisting my point. 😱 😱 😆 😆