Originally posted by Gideon
Hacking?lol.
Look, as the harbinger and guardian of logic in these here parts, I'm simply questioning where the hell someone would come up with that idea.
I mean, Cado might be basing the ridiculous theory off of the fact that Sidious has been stated to be stronger, demonstrates greater powers, and that Dooku regarded Sidious with total fear and reverence, but do you think that means shit?
Ask Nai. He'll tell you. Making someone your lapdog for thirteen years and having them terrified to be in your very presence via hologram and so on and so forth is not a sign of superiority...
That's exactly what it is...people like that lay throughout history as the greatest leaders of their time/country/whatever...
Hitler: he wasn't powerful in any way shape or form, apart from the fact that he "Make someone his lapdog and made them terrified to be his very presence via hologram (<--not that bit) and so on and so forth...". He was smart though. That's how he became Furah (dunno how to spell it...=S)...
TBH, that's my only example...
but then again, you did contradict yourself...trying to defend Tyranus...
Originally posted by Gideon
the fact that Sidious has been stated to be stronger, demonstrates greater powers, and that Dooku regarded Sidious with total fear and reverence...
Originally posted by Gideon
Ask Nai. He'll tell you. Making someone your lapdog for thirteen years and having them terrified to be in your very presence via hologram and so on and so forth is not a sign of superiority.You just wait. Nai will show you. [/B]
Hitler ruled Germany for more than a decade and had people terrified in his very presence. Does that mean he would have been able to defeat every single of his subjects in a fist fight? No? I see: Your "logic" fails once more, as does your sarcasm.
Maybe we should analyze force powers and lightsaber abilities rather then sheming and manipulation abilities to determine the victor of a versus fight. I mean, hey, that could be a good idea, right?
Not in the fanboy universe that Gideon lives in of course.
I was just busting your balls, Nai. I never thought you'd actually try to debate this point, lol. Besides, the last time you were here, didn't you tell me that you never entertained the idea of Dooku beating Sidious?
I'm game.
Originally posted by Nai
Hitler ruled Germany for more than a decade and had people terrified in his very presence.
This is an irrelevant comparison. For clarification, let's elaborate. Adolf Hitler was the undisputed dictator of a vast army, surrounded by brutal bodyguards and psychotic lieutenants. Count Dooku, on the other hand, was the "conquering general" of armies who secretly answered to Palpatine -- there is no indication that Sidious controlled the Confederacy directly and completely until prior to Labyrinth of Evil. Moreover, Dooku was not in Sidious's direct presence when he mused on his great fear of the Dark Lord. It was typically via hologram, with the Count secluded in his fortresses surrounded by armies.
Does that mean he would have been able to defeat every single of his subjects in a fist fight? No? I see: Your "logic" fails once more, as does your sarcasm.
Again, an irrelevant comparison. Was Hitler a powerful Force-user? Were his subjects?
Maybe we should analyze force powers and lightsaber abilities rather then sheming and manipulation abilities to determine the victor of a versus fight. I mean, hey, that could be a good idea, right?Not in the fanboy universe that Gideon lives in of course.
During a particularly juicy moment of Dark Rendezvous, Dooku thinks of his Master with great condescension. He believes that Sidious was wont to indulge himself in overly complex schemes, where Dooku saw far simpler solutions to the same problem. During this moment of condescension, he does have enough foresight to clarify to the reader: "Not that [Dooku] would ever question the power of Darth Sidious. The dark secrets at his command."
Of course, in the very next scene, when Sidious visits via hologram, Dooku's condescension "spills from him like blood from a vein."
So, in conclusion, Nai. Count Dooku, known for his brazen rebelliousness and his rejection of the great Master Yoda, commander of vast armies, one of the most powerful Sith Lords and Jedi Masters of all time, bold enough to declare open war against the Jedi Order...
...Is terrified to be in his Master's hologram presence. Not to mention all of Palpatine's feats exceed Dooku's.
The Count is simply inferior. And it's high time you accept it and move on. Repent for your sinful and delusional ways, Nai. Only through our forgiveness can ye be saved.
Originally posted by Gideon
I was just busting your balls, Nai. I never thought you'd actually try to debate this point, lol. Besides, the last time you were here, didn't you tell me that you never entertained the idea of Dooku beating Sidious?
The last time I was here was yesterday and I can't remember to have stated anything on that particular topic. And if I may remind you: The only thing that was ever debated in regard of that subject was the question if Dooku could defeat RotS Sidious in a lightsaber fight and if he could defend himself against RotS Sidious force onslaught long enough to move on to and kill the Sith Lord if he should be able to defeat him with a lightsaber.
That are two strictly limited questions - not a generalization that you prefer as outcome of a VS match.
This is an irrelevant comparison. For clarification, let's elaborate. Adolf Hitler was the undisputed dictator of a vast army, surrounded by brutal bodyguards and psychotic lieutenants. Count Dooku, on the other hand, was the "conquering general" of armies who secretly answered to Palpatine -- there is no indication that Sidious controlled the Confederacy directly and completely until prior to Labyrinth of Evil. Moreover, Dooku was not in Sidious's direct presence when he mused on his great fear of the Dark Lord. It was typically via hologram, with the Count secluded in his fortresses surrounded by armies.
Gideon. For the sake of God. Stop this ridiculous attempts to pull conclusions out of your ass. Why does Dooku fear Sidious? Right. You can't answer the question, because an answer is never given. You know: Fear is a complete irrational mechanism. If it's irrational you can't find a rational explanation for the feeling. If you can't find a rational explanation, you can't draw the conclusion that Dooku feared Sidious because he had a real reason to do so. And since you can't do that, stating that Dooku feared Sidious doesn't get you anywhere.
According to legend, elephants do fear mice. Is there any rational explanation for it? Is there anything that would allow us to draw the conclusion that mice > elephants?
Again, an irrelevant comparison. Was Hitler a powerful Force-user? Were his subjects?
It is not irrelevant, because it serves as a demonstration of the illogical reasoning you're attempting to use here. What you're, basically, saying is: One can't overcome something he fears [Dooku can't overcome Sidious, because he fears him]. Where is the logic in that statement?
So, in conclusion, Nai. Count Dooku, known for his brazen rebelliousness and his rejection of the great Master Yoda, commander of vast armies, one of the most powerful Sith Lords and Jedi Masters of all time, bold enough to declare open war against the Jedi Order......Is terrified to be in his Master's hologram presence. Not to mention all of Palpatine's feats exceed Dooku's.
The Count is simply inferior. And it's high time you accept it and move on. Repent for your sinful and delusional ways, Nai. Only through our forgiveness can ye be saved.
🙄
I never said that Dooku is overall more powerful than Sidious, which wouldn't make sense for various reasons. I may just explain it once again.
The scenario is the following: RotS Sidious and RotS Dooku see each other for the first time (VS Fight - no character relation involved). Sidious wants to fry Dooku with force lightning, while Dooku wants to take the fight to Sidious (melee action). Two simple questions:
a) Is it possible that Dooku could defend himself against a single attack with force lightning from Sidious?
b) Is it possible that Dooku could defeat RotS Sidious in the ensuing lightsaber battle if the answer to a) is "yes".
You see. That is a very confined space for an argument: You have Sidious who didn't touch a weapon for a decade (so clearly not in top shape) and you have a very detailed idea on how the fight might work. Phase I: Sidious attempts to fry Dooku, phase II: Dooku tries to cut down Sidious.
I assume that Dooku could win in the above mentioned, clearly defined scenario. Could he do the same if we assume both characters "in universe" as they are in RotS? Maybe - but far less likely because of the relationship between those two characters. I beg to differ between VS fight and hypothetical in universe happenings.
PS: Please spare me those pseudo-christian ramblings, Jessiah. I neither care about forgiveness (lmao here?) nor sins (sins against what?). 😉