Namor vs Superman

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
How am I failing to comprehend the first law of motion?

Superman pulls the chain, therefore overcoming the planet's inertia.

Obviously, he is strong enough to pull the planet. Pulling and lifting are quite different.

You fail to understand that the planet's inertia >>>>> the planet's weight.

For instance, hypothetically, if the Earth were sitting on the surface of a body that is equally or more massive than itself, in the presence of gravity, Superman has not shown that he possesses the strength to push the two apart. Understood?

(its achually the third, you seem to get the one about bodies in motion wanting to stay in motion)

to begin with we are talking about 1/3 of the moon

if i said superman could move a planet, it was more of a typo, we are talking about celestial bodies

since you have said yourself that intertia>>>>weight, you basically prove my point

its harder to stop a moving body than just lift one at rest

i dont make this stuff up

in space he has to overcome the inertia, on earth he has to overcome gravity

inertia >>>>>>>>>>>> gravity

the weight of the moon doesnt change

Originally posted by Cosmic Cube
Wrong. The thrust is the power of flight. Not his strength.

If Superman just shoved the planet, and it went flying, that would be strength.

this is the last thing im saying on this, after you can just go look it up

superman can have all the thrust in the world, if his strength is not equal to that thrust, he cannot move anything with his arms

ok, lets try a recap

im NOT saying superman is using his strength to move the planet (not directly, i think you are splitting hairs about comic physics, but you still dont know what you are talking about)

He is most certainly generating the thrust that is needed to move the moon

where his strength comes into play is his ability to hold onto the chain (i had origionally thought he just pushed it with his arms, thats why i made the big post with the handstand thing)

so, you say you get newton, so then you get that if you exert force to lift something (even if that force is thrust) there will be an equal ammount of force pulling the opposite direction

look man, this is like, super simple physics

there is as much drag being created by the moon as there is thrust being created by superman

therefore, where the two meet (the chain superman is holding) there must be strength equal to the ammount of force on it.

like the tractor example from spetz:

Originally posted by spetznaz

Ok, a more real world example.
A car is stuck.
I need to pull it out of the mud.
I take a lil' child (say 3 yrs old), and put him in the back of a tractor (and strap the kid tightly so that he cannot be pulled off).
I give the child a high tensile strength rope to hold, and the end of the rope is tied around the front end of the car.
I then start to drive the tractor forward until the rope starts to get taut.
Then I go forward some more.
Now ....the tractor has more than enough pulling ability to get 5 cars out of mud, thus it has enough pull/thrust to get the car out of the muck.
The only thing is that the child is holding the rope.
However, since I have 'enough thrust' the kid should be able to pull out the car, right?
Wrong ....the kid's arms would immediately get disconnected.

superman HAS to be that strong, or his arms wouldn't be able to pull the weight, regardless of his thrust.

again, im not making this up, this is very simple physics that you see at work every day.

Originally posted by inamilist
(its achually the third, you seem to get the one about bodies in motion wanting to stay in motion)

to begin with we are talking about 1/3 of the moon

if i said superman could move a planet, it was more of a typo, we are talking about celestial bodies

since you have said yourself that intertia>>>>weight, you basically prove my point

its harder to stop a moving body than just lift one at rest

i dont make this stuff up

in space he has to overcome the inertia, on earth he has to overcome gravity

inertia >>>>>>>>>>>> gravity

the weight of the moon doesnt change

this is the last thing im saying on this, after you can just go look it up

superman can have all the thrust in the world, if his strength is not equal to that thrust, he cannot move anything with his arms

ok, lets try a recap

im NOT saying superman is using his strength to move the planet (not directly, i think you are splitting hairs about comic physics, but you still dont know what you are talking about)

He is most certainly generating the thrust that is needed to move the moon

where his strength comes into play is his ability to hold onto the chain (i had origionally thought he just pushed it with his arms, thats why i made the big post with the handstand thing)

so, you say you get newton, so then you get that if you exert force to lift something (even if that force is thrust) there will be an equal ammount of force pulling the opposite direction

look man, this is like, super simple physics

there is as much drag being created by the moon as there is thrust being created by superman

therefore, where the two meet (the chain superman is holding) there must be strength equal to the ammount of force on it.

like the tractor example from spetz:

superman HAS to be that strong, or his arms wouldn't be able to pull the weight, regardless of his thrust.

again, im not making this up, this is very simple physics that you see at work every day.

Hehas a point CC his arms would come off!

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Hehas a point CC his arms would come off!

No the Strength Force that resisdes in all comical universes keeps them on his body ..... Supes manipulates this force more than any Marvel character !!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂

So, he has the ability to hold the weight, and withstand the force of it. That's a bit different. Personally, my body can hold more weight than it can lift upward. Superman's flight is doing most of the work, while his body is able to maintain while he flies. Basically, his body can withstand the G-force of the flight with the weight of that small moon behind him while being aided by Wonder Woman. So, the flight does most of the work. However, if he were to plant his feet somewhere, not fly, and drag that planet by himself, then yes, his strength alone would be able to move that planet.

btw, read through this article I found on Supes' powers. Please read through this carefully before posting further, because there's a HUGE difference between pre-crisis and post-crisis Superman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_Superman

Originally posted by Marcus4600
So, he has the ability to hold the weight, and withstand the force of it. That's a bit different. Personally, my body can hold more weight than it can lift upward. Superman's flight is doing most of the work, while his body is able to maintain while he flies. Basically, his body can withstand the G-force of the flight with the weight of that small moon behind him while being aided by Wonder Woman. So, the flight does most of the work. However, if he were to plant his feet somewhere, not fly, and drag that planet by himself, then yes, his strength alone would be able to move that planet.

btw, read through this article I found on Supes' powers. Please read through this carefully before posting further, because there's a HUGE difference between pre-crisis and post-crisis Superman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_Superman

Originally posted by Sir Whirlysplat
Hehas a point CC his arms would come off!

I just realized that we were talking about 2 different things. I was talking about him pushing a planet. He was talking about pulling one. In which case he is right.

Superman's arms are strong enough to hold onto a planet while he pulls it via flight. One way or another it's his power of flight that provides the thrust which allows him to move planets, not his muscles.

Besides, who cares? He's stronger than just about every other superhero anyway. It requires a ridiculous amount of strength to pull a planet, whether your flying or not.

Originally posted by Marcus4600
So, he has the ability to hold the weight, and withstand the force of it. That's a bit different. Personally, my body can hold more weight than it can lift upward. Superman's flight is doing most of the work, while his body is able to maintain while he flies. Basically, his body can withstand the G-force of the flight with the weight of that small moon behind him while being aided by Wonder Woman. So, the flight does most of the work. However, if he were to plant his feet somewhere, not fly, and drag that planet by himself, then yes, his strength alone would be able to move that planet.

btw, read through this article I found on Supes' powers. Please read through this carefully before posting further, because there's a HUGE difference between pre-crisis and post-crisis Superman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_Superman

This is exactly what I've been meaning to say.

It's not that pulling a planet requires little strength; it requires hella strength. However, strength is not the major factor in the equation. Flight is the thrust that allows him to move the planet.

Actually, Superman's strength has little to do with his muscles and a lot to do with his bioaura, which would explain why he's able to exert enough power to move a planet.