Originally posted by ((The_Anomaly))
Yea, unless your an over the top fanboy who jerks off to the fact that "supr4m4n is teh 1337!!11 pwn3r supr4m4n tis pwning teh 5qu33b5 liek n00bs!!!111 z0MG!!!111 LOLzz!!! supr4m4n 15 2 1337 teh g3t roxxorz by 4ny0n3!!!!11"Then you dont wanna read Pre-Crisis Superman stories. They're just ridiculous.
No. That post is ridiculous.
I have many many pre-Crisis comics from the late seventies/early eighties and they're absolutely fine.
The stories are basically exactly the same as modern ones.
The only differences in Superman's powerset, seems to be that he's ACTUALLY invulnerable and that he can fly through time.
Would it be that much of a big step to take current Superman to that level?
What's with all the pre-crisis Superman hate. Ever heard of Silver Surfer? He can do anything. He can turn anybody or anything to whatever he desires, traval lightyears in seconds, use an enemies weakness against them with cosmic awareness, can take supernovas and blackholes without flinching, takes mindless Hulk's punches without flinching, turn intangible, invisible, and whatever he wants to do with power cosmic. There are people more powerful than Superman.
Yes, I don't like marvel comics for the most part due to their stupid cosmic beings. Silver Surfer is one of the reasons I don't read marvel.
And as for the Superman traveling through time? No. IMO no one should be able to do that under their own willpower. Its just stupid. I mean whats the point? Not only can Pre-Crisis Supes pretty well not be beat. If for some reason something goes wrong he just goes back in time to fix it? Not even worth reading. Its just too absurd to take seriously. He cant lose, and if he cant lose then why read it in the first place?
For me, characters have to be at least somewhat believable. Clark is an alien, he is not a god.
Lets keep it that way.
Darkseid made whooping Pre-crisis Superman a hobby. He did it all the time. He could do anything Superman could and more. Pre-crisis Superman was not unbeatable. He even got whooped by PC Mongul.
I don't see anything wrong with Silver Surfer. I like characters with low and high power levels as long as they have a good story to back it up and don't get past the Living Tribunal. By the way, how come you have problems with characters with huge power levels, yet you are a DBZ fan?
Superman doesn't have to have a believable power level to be a good character. Just good stories. I don't care if he throws the moon at somebody. As long as the story is good and the writers don't use illogical plot devices. I definetly don't want to see Superman struggle with an airplane, either. That's as much illogical as him traveling through time.
Originally posted by Femi32
Darkseid made whooping Pre-crisis Superman a hobby. He did it all the time. He could do anything Superman could and more. Pre-crisis Superman was not unbeatable. He even got whooped by PC Mongul.I don't see anything wrong with Silver Surfer. I like characters with low and high power levels as long as they have a good story to back it up and don't get past the Living Tribunal. By the way, how come you have problems with characters with huge power levels, yet you are a DBZ fan?
Superman doesn't have to have a believable power level to be a good character. Just good stories. I don't care if he throws the moon at somebody. As long as the story is good and the writers don't use illogical plot devices. I definetly don't want to see Superman struggle with an airplane, either. That's as much illogical as him traveling through time.
Excellent post mate! ✅
Originally posted by Femi32
Darkseid made whooping Pre-crisis Superman a hobby. He did it all the time. He could do anything Superman could and more. Pre-crisis Superman was not unbeatable. He even got whooped by PC Mongul.I don't see anything wrong with Silver Surfer. I like characters with low and high power levels as long as they have a good story to back it up and don't get past the Living Tribunal. By the way, how come you have problems with characters with huge power levels, yet you are a DBZ fan?
Superman doesn't have to have a believable power level to be a good character. Just good stories. I don't care if he throws the moon at somebody. As long as the story is good and the writers don't use illogical plot devices. I definetly don't want to see Superman struggle with an airplane, either. That's as much illogical as him traveling through time.
1) Yes, you are right about the Darkseid thing.
2) And yes you are kinda right. As long as their powers make sense. The story is key, but to have Superman pulling along 5 planets with no difficulty (which he did in PC) is just dumb. See its cause to me ANYONE pulling 5 planets along is just dumb, all the time. It should just not ever happen. To me, Superman DOES have to be somewhat believable. Lifting a plane shouldn't be a problem (at all. no where did I say he should be that weak), they should draw the line at lifting the moon however, and nothing beyond that (at the most). And I still think lifting the moon is damn steep, but I COULD believe it, he is Superman after all but he should have to use ALL his strength to pull that off, and be exhausted after doing it. And time travel under his own power? no, just no. Thats is just too dumb to even think about.
3) I like DBZ because despite their extreme power, they are always the underdogs. Going into every battle in DBZ they arnt supposed to be able to win. They're strong, but there's always someone stronger and it takes everything they have in order to beat them. Superman isnt like this, especially PC Superman. Now you would say that "well then just put all the bad guys on the same, or higher level of power then Superman". But no. See there's a line as I said. The DBZ characters don't cross that line, PC Superman does cross that line. And if you were to make all the bad guys hes fighting stronger then him to make him the underdog all the time then everyone would be past that line, and it would just be stupid. Believability is a HUGE factor for me. I mean 2 guys throwing Stars and planets at each other in their fight is absurd, no matter how you slice it. You could achieve the same effect by having them throw trucks, and small buildings at each other or something. Same fight, same drama, same everything, cept its more believable.
Thats who I am. I love Superman, but I DO wish he had limits. Thats why I loathe PC Superman. (and apparently I'd not be too large of a fan of Superman one million either)
The character is an awesome one. Of all the 'Supermen' (versions of Supes) The Smallville one is my favorite. Hes cool, and believable, yet still strong, fast and all that.
Superman, written right, is awesome. Written bad, hes not so hot. His story and all the mythos that goes with him are amazingly awesome, he just needs to be not so dumb all the time. And that means no 00ber power. He needs to have ower and lots of it, but not so overpowered that it seems retarded. Some writers seem to forget that he is an alien, hes a being who was born and will/ can die. He is not a demi-god, or a god. He. is. an. alien. Thats it. An alien who is lucky enough to have amazing abilities when under a yellow sun. Nothing more.
Here's a comment from John Byrnes himself:
John Byrne
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Robot WranglerJoined: 11 May 2005
Location: United States
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Posted: 30 June 2005 at 3:59pm | IP Logged
In the issue of ACTION COMICS I just finished he
goes toe to toe with Black Adam, something "my"
Superman would not have been able to do (even
forgetting the magic angle).He seems little different from the Superman I read in
the 50s and 60s, and could probably wipe the floor
with most of Marvel's characters..
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Here's a link to the site for those interested:
http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6624&PN=19&TPN=1
magee your right, i think that's the way it should start going, it is the stories after all and he has enough villains which are extremely powerful that it would be more interesting for him to fight with. Doomsday would need to evolve beyond PC supes, which would make him absolutely menacing to pretty much anyone, darksied could return to original powers and duke it out with supes like they used too. Man loads of stuff, it would be good timing to bump him back to his hay day!
Originally posted by Femi32
What's with all the pre-crisis Superman hate. Ever heard of Silver Surfer? He can do anything. He can turn anybody or anything to whatever he desires, traval lightyears in seconds, use an enemies weakness against them with cosmic awareness, can take supernovas and blackholes without flinching, takes mindless Hulk's punches without flinching, turn intangible, invisible, and whatever he wants to do with power cosmic. There are people more powerful than Superman.
Easy:
Because the Silver Surfer is from Marvel and Superman is from DC.
Have Superman speedblitz an opponent and you'll have actual threads made (like in the comic vs forum) denouncing speedblitz.
And in the same breath the same posters will spout forth how King Thor can 'obliterate a planet,' how the Silver Surfer can travel at a 'hundred times the speed of light,' and how the Phoenix can extinguish solar systems.
Oh, and don't dare bring characters like Sentry into the mix (apparently he can do 'anything'😉. Apparently the irony that the Sentry was in part based on Superman flies over their heads.
I can understand how some may not want Superman sneezing away planetary systems, however there is a group that would prefer Superman in an even more depowered state. Maybe that would make it easier for them in the versus forum (eg when they make threads like the one that was comparing Superman's heat vision to Cyclop's optic blasts. As if that is a comparison to begin with).
I've always maintained that Superman is SUPERman .....not some version of a 'male Rogue' or a 'flying Colossus' with Cyclop-esque optic blasts and Quicksilver level speed!
He is arguably the prime superhero, and thus should have a set of powers that are significantly substantial.
He should NOT be at a level where he could be just another member of the X-men.
It is rather ludicrous.
Originally posted by spetznaz
Easy:
Because the Silver Surfer is from Marvel and Superman is from DC.Have Superman speedblitz an opponent and you'll have actual threads made (like in the comic vs forum) denouncing speedblitz.
And in the same breath the same posters will spout forth how King Thor can 'obliterate a planet,' how the Silver Surfer can travel at a 'hundred times the speed of light,' and how the Phoenix can extinguish solar systems.
Oh, and don't dare bring characters like Sentry into the mix (apparently he can do 'anything'😉. Apparently the irony that the Sentry was in part based on Superman flies over their heads.I can understand how some may not want Superman sneezing away planetary systems, however there is a group that would prefer Superman in an even more depowered state. Maybe that would make it easier for them in the versus forum (eg when they make threads like the one that was comparing Superman's heat vision to Cyclop's optic blasts. As if that is a comparison to begin with).
I've always maintained that Superman is SUPERman .....not some version of a 'male Rogue' or a 'flying Colossus' with Cyclop-esque optic blasts and Quicksilver level speed!
He is arguably the prime superhero, and thus should have a set of powers that are significantly substantial.
He should NOT be at a level where he could be just another member of the X-men.It is rather ludicrous.
You my friend is correct whats the point in having super in your name if your not super.
Originally posted by spetznaz
Easy:
Because the Silver Surfer is from Marvel and Superman is from DC.Have Superman speedblitz an opponent and you'll have actual threads made (like in the comic vs forum) denouncing speedblitz.
And in the same breath the same posters will spout forth how King Thor can 'obliterate a planet,' how the Silver Surfer can travel at a 'hundred times the speed of light,' and how the Phoenix can extinguish solar systems.
Oh, and don't dare bring characters like Sentry into the mix (apparently he can do 'anything'😉. Apparently the irony that the Sentry was in part based on Superman flies over their heads.I can understand how some may not want Superman sneezing away planetary systems, however there is a group that would prefer Superman in an even more depowered state. Maybe that would make it easier for them in the versus forum (eg when they make threads like the one that was comparing Superman's heat vision to Cyclop's optic blasts. As if that is a comparison to begin with).
I've always maintained that Superman is SUPERman .....not some version of a 'male Rogue' or a 'flying Colossus' with Cyclop-esque optic blasts and Quicksilver level speed!
He is arguably the prime superhero, and thus should have a set of powers that are significantly substantial.
He should NOT be at a level where he could be just another member of the X-men.It is rather ludicrous.
Well put. In some ways the power upgrades are unavoidable. With practically EVERYONE nowadays getting power upgrades there wouldn't be anything SUPER about SUPERMAN withouth them.
IMO, Superman should always be on a different level entirely than your 'standard' hero. A good writer can still write great stories around a ridiculous power set.
Post crisis, Superman's rogue galeries have also come a long way powerwise from Lex and Toyman.