Besides the fact that Melkor gave away much of his power in his creations, it says quite clearly that the power of an Ainur is bound into their purpose, implying that as they drift from their purpose they lose power. Melkor was almost powerless at the time of the wounding as he was about as far from his purpose as one could be...
Originally posted by thtadthtshldntb
Besides the fact that Melkor gave away much of his power in his creations, it says quite clearly that the power of an Ainur is bound into their purpose, implying that as they drift from their purpose they lose power. Melkor was almost powerless at the time of the wounding as he was about as far from his purpose as one could be...
But when Aule created the Dwarven folk he drifted from his purpose. It was not his purpose to create life even without free will yet Aule was and always is listed among the mighty of the Valar he did not lose any power. Admittedly he did not drift for long motioning to destroy his creations when Eru found out if I remember correctly but Eru gave them free will because he saw how much Aule loved them.
Now what I ask is, does the power lost when one difts from ones purpose return when you return to the said purpose or does it stay lost. If so is Aule subject to the same loss of power that you say Melkor is? Melkor would have lost a lot from siphoning it off to others for sure. Radagast also was far from his purpose on Middle-earth yet he seems to retain the majority of his power being able to commune with nature and influence it.
The only losses of power we see are Melkor & Sauron through greed and pouring their power and strength into other selfish ventures and to some degree Saurman who is overpowered and cast out of the order by Gandalf. However these don't seem related to a loss of purpose more than a self inflicted end or a concious decision to shed said power.
As for my opinion, I'm not sure who would win. Sauron was a Maia and very powerful but he was not a warrior by nature unlike Gothmog his craft was not in war. At Barad-dur Sauron only engaged the Alliance of Men and Elves because his other forces had crumbled and were loosing, Sauron made a last ditch effort. He did not openly and willingly engage in combat and as such Fingolfin may have the edge.
Originally posted by thefallen544
[B]But when Aule created the Dwarven folk he drifted from his purpose. It was not his purpose to create life even without free will yet Aule was and always is listed among the mighty of the Valar he did not lose any power. Admittedly he did not drift for long motioning to destroy his creations when Eru found out if I remember correctly but Eru gave them free will because he saw how much Aule loved them.
Eru did not give them freewill, he gave them life itself. The initial dwarves were not independent life forms, they were simply... I guess manikins would be the best word or puppets. They only functioned as part of Aule. Aule did not drift from his purpose in creating the bodies of the Dwarves. In fact Illuvatar points out that it is beyond Aule power to create separate independent spirited things, only Illuvatar can create new spirits, which he did once he sensed the repentence and the intent of Aule to give the Dwarves over to him (Illuvatar). Aule's purpose includes creating things.
Originally posted by thefallen544 Now what I ask is, does the power lost when one difts from ones purpose return when you return to the said purpose or does it stay lost. If so is Aule subject to the same loss of power that you say Melkor is? Melkor would have lost a lot from siphoning it off to others for sure. Radagast also was far from his purpose on Middle-earth yet he seems to retain the majority of his power being able to commune with nature and influence it.
I take the idea of the nature of an Ainur's power being defined by their purpose right out of the Ainulindale. Essentially each Ainur is created to add "texture" to the great song, Illuvatar also states therein "And since I have kindled you with the Flame Imperishable, ye shall show forth your powers in adorning this theme, each with his own thoughts and devices, if he will."
As Melkor drifted from the Theme of Illuvatar, he lost his ability to influence it. This was further worsened by the squandering of what little power he had left, by making things like Dragons and twisting the Valanquar (I think that this is not the proper spelling) into the Balrogs.
Also the Istari were sent to all of Middle Earth not just the Gondor to the Shire area. Being Istari was a job more than it was part of their original purpose. Radaghast had something to do with birds, as his primary purpose IIRC.
Originally posted by thefallen544 The only losses of power we see are Melkor & Sauron through greed and pouring their power and strength into other selfish ventures and to some degree Saurman who is overpowered and cast out of the order by Gandalf. However these don't seem related to a loss of purpose more than a self inflicted end or a concious decision to shed said power.
Saruman does not lose his power because Gandalf takes it away, he loses it because he drifts from that same theme that Illivatar dictated. Gandalf/Olorin was always more powerful than Saruman/Curunthir. I would hazard a guess that the reason that Saruman was made head of the Istari was that he was also a Maiar of Aule and thus would be most familar with the power and problems in dealing with Sauron (and the remains of Melkor's "work", as Melkor is ascribed to be very similar in nature to Aule).
Originally posted by vanice
LOL... WTF's your problem???!! sauron is a maia for crying out loud!!!fingolfins attempt to fight MORGOTH was completely pointless. anyone can raise his sword before getting trampled to death. and morgoths bad wound was mostly ringils fault. getting squashed is not a proof of power!!! frodo was brave taking on the huge task and carrying the ring in to saurons land. brave not powerful. frodo would have been killed by morgoth too, and sting might have wounded just as bad as ringil did.
if anyone here is to shut up it's you cause you don't seem to know shit.
ur the N00b so STFU.
I greatly dislike you. I hate your comments here and in other threads. I believe you are a sock of a Star Wars Forums member who was banned and worshiped the Andeteluvians.
Originally posted by it_wasn't_me
Sauron is a maia, fingolfin is a brave elf and got help from the kings of the eagles so fingilfin is dooooomed.Fingolfin is brave but not a maia.
Gothmog, lord of all Balrogs (I think that is how you spell his name) was a maia, and he was killed by an Elf.
Doesn't that kinda ruin your reasoning?