man's best friend

Started by Gundark9 pages

You better grin at me !! 😠

oh! but finti told me he didn't!

Yerss, read Animal Farm. You'll get the picture.

He's read it. It's not as if that is the be all and end all of discussion about Communist theory.

It makes for a tough argument though.

I mean, somebody has to be the leader. Somebody has to make the decisions.

Well, according to TRUE Communst theory, no they don't. Not that this fantasy will ever happen.

take note of the use of the word theory. Theories are often disproven

Yeah, and they often work out just fine as well. And Communist theory IS just fine but it relies too much on people acting in the best interests of the society for it to be practicable. But in any case that wasn't a worthwhile statement because when discussing political ideology you always talk in terms of theory.

Most enlightened left-wingers who would once have been Communists tend to be Gramscists these days.

People are unpredictable. The chaos theory disproves that which is proven over and over again everyday.

That's just sophistic nonsense. Chaos theory is a scientific principle that has nothing to do with politics.

It disproves the Communist theory so I would say it has something to do with it. There are tiny variabilities that change from second to second and change the outcome drastically. You can't predict people. This is the same reason meteorologists can't predict the weather for more than a few days in advance.

Didn't any of you read Jurassic Park?

Yes.

But chaos theory does in no way prove the tenets of communism wrong. That is a complete non sequitur. You may as well say chaos theory porvves that no political system will ever work, which is obvious nonsense.

You need to think more before making such spurious connections.

I am saying that Communist theory is based on the prediction of human behavior. People are unpredictable. The chaos theory deals with the unpredictability of complex systems such as people.

But people as GROUPS are more predictable.

ALL poliitcal systems work on the basis of analysing group behaviour.

I am afraid that whatever you say about chaos theory, it is blatantly not true that it is impossible for politics to do this otherwise capitalism would not work either.

Your mistake is in trying to make out politics as a science, set in stone. It is flexible. Chais theiory is only relevant when dealing with things like hard maths.

Capitalism isn't the great thing that people say it is. It is the worst form of government besides all the others. And you're still not getting me meaning.

A group of people is made up of individuals. Even if people are more predictable in groups there is always the one loose cannon that will change the system. Complex systems have tons of possible variables that can change and, I repeat, change the outcome drastically!!!!!!

It doesn't matter if you don't like capitalism or not. It still works as predicted, is the point.

I get what you are saying perfectly, thanks, and it is still hogwash. No scientist has ever been stupid enough to say that chaos theory makes the analysis of people impossible. It doesn't matter if there is the odd random element. Society continues in any case. We have centuries of history to prove this, Lauren, and any nonsense you peddle about chaos theory does not change that.

And to simply say that chaos theory proves that communism doesn't work is one of the silliest things I have ever heard. You haven't even started to get to grips with the fundamental thinking behind it- I doubt you have any knowledge of that- and so that is a hypothesis you couldn't even vaguely begin to prove.

And the amusing post-script to this non-argument is that when scientists try and apply chaos theory to a social model they always come to the idea that Marxism is the one that best suits it. If you apply it literally then positive feedback would say that free-market capitalism would destroy itself (though just as Marx's own predictions about capitalism were wrong, this clearly does not work either; Gramsci later corrected this error by Marx) and that deep chaos would produce a society not at all dissimular to the one he envisaged... probably more like social anarchy, actually (Kim would like that, yerss...)

... but as they also point out, because social systems are non-linear NONE OF THIS APPLIES!

wow

I'm not saying it makes the analysis of people impossible. You misunderstood me. You can't fully predict human actions because they of the tiny little variables

And show me these studies. Sounds like made up crap tome.-

I think I missed something

You can't fully predict human actions because they of the tiny little variables
I agree with this