Kain (Legacy of kain) vs Cloud (final fantasy)

i looked through your forums and did not see anything about Kain against cloud, Ive seen him fighting various things but not cloud so i would just like to see what you people think on this.

i am a Legacy of kain fan but thinking of the two i would like to see a collection of Final Fantasy fans and Legacy of kain fans sharing their views on such a battle 🙂

first off both are at full strength, no limitations whatsoever, not knowing a huge amount on Cloud i will list a few things about Kain and his abilities here, hopefully a Cloud fan will list clouds powers and strength

basically Kain is a very muscular 6-7ft tall Vampire who has lived for thousands of years constantly evolving, gaining power and drinking the blood of us mortals.

his strengths are that he is not only an extremely agile and powerful fighter but can do a supernatural of mist form so that attacks simply pass through him, he does this a lot when hes dodging attacks, being a vampire few things hurt him and being an especially evolved vampire he does not feel threat from light and most other vampiric weaknesses

kain can jump huge distances, can teleport and can use telekinetic power to move objects around including human beings and weapons etc etc with his mind. if hes Vampiric power and strength was not enough he also uses an indestructible vampiric blade that measures to a similar size to kain himself and drains the power and strength from his enemies. This is a discussion on who will defeat who, not necessarily kill them or destroy since Kain cannot be killed

if Ive left anything ime sure another LOK fan will elaborate a bit more (not to say i have not elaborated too much 🙂 ) hope this will be a long discussion

Without limitation Cloud will be wielding the Ultimate Weapon, a sword taken from the corpse of the Ultima Weapon, a giant creature created by the planet as a means of defending itself. he'll have access to the Omnislash, a berserker 24 hit combo.

And he'll have the strongest materia there is including, Knights Of The Round, a magic spell which traps the opponent in another dimension where they are attacked by King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, at least 1 of the attacks is holy. Bahumat Zero A giant six winged dragon from the sun which fires a beam that is basically a small scale nuke. Barrier Magic which places several types shields around him, Death magic, Elemental, Removal magic that literally wipes the opponent from existence and the very cheap Final Attack & Phoenix combination which means Kain would pretty much have to kill Cloud five times to guarantee his success.

And if we go by Advent Children Cloud is far faster and more agile than Kain could hope of being. Kain's one of my favorite characters and I've played the entire Legacy series except for Blood Omen 1 but I can't see him being a real threat to a maxed out Cloud. If I remember correctly Kain can't control a person who's aware of him and he won't be able to get close enough to attack before Cloud unleashes something that's going to cause way more damage than Kain can handle.

Kains only chance would be to hide in mist form and then try hit and run tactics with his telekinesis but the way I see it Cloud wins far more than he loses

hmmm actually Kain can control humans even when they are aware of him, in LOK defiance he moves people around all the time, and he moves moebius in the Ancient vampire citadel, cloud would surely just be moved around or have his weapon taken from him and become impaled by his own weapon or have his weapon thrown from him, Kains teleportation allows him to simply and quickly move away from any high scale damage cloud causes , also take into the fact that Kain can survive far more attacks than cloud simply becasue he is a Vampire, if Cloud gets a sword sliced through his body he will die, wheras Kain would simply take it out, also even if Kain is Vaporised or melted he simply turns into bats and reforms at another location, besides i didnt think cloud could summon Bahumat, ime a bit rusty on FF but i doubt Cloud would be able to do anytihng before Kain simply pulls him flying towards him and slices cloud in half, or sends clouds sword from his hand then does the same only ofcourse without danger of cloud cutting him 🙂

Kain is immortal. End of story...
Unless Cloud gets Soul Reaver blade from Kain and kills him with it...
hysterical

yeah i doubt Cloud will do that any time soon with Kain teleporting, misting etc etc and besides even if cloud did do that Kain could just TK the sword away from him back into his hands 😉 also ime not sure if Kain can be killed by his own weapon, i thought only Razials wraith blade when coupled with Raziels physical form gives him the power to kill Kain

TK! I forgor all about it, this is just another reason why Cloud is dead in this fight.

shame there is not a load more final fantasy and Legacy of Kain Fans discussing this, perhaps there are not many of either on at the moment 🙁 i thought Cloud and Kain were very populour Characters, hehe maybe people dont like them fighting 🙂 wish i knew how to get a Pole up and running

Correction, Kain is not completely immortal he can be killed by normal Humans I know this. I died quite a few time on Blood Omen two and Defiance. Too much damage to the body will stop him as will decapitation, all other weaknesses were removed via evolution. Kain's Telekinesis works as a blast as I recall something that needs to be charged then launched. Cloud is fast enough to dodge the attack and start closing the range. Kain's biggest hope now seems to be taking over Clouds mind, he's never had the best mental defence, well it all depends on whether or not Kain can do this before Cloud levels the surrounding area with Bahumat. But remember Kain won't win killing Cloud the first time as final attack an Phoenix will not only revive him but attack Kain as well.

Originally posted by Lord Ryugen
Correction, Kain is not completely immortal he can be killed by normal Humans I know this. I died quite a few time on Blood Omen two and Defiance. Too much damage to the body will stop him as will decapitation, all other weaknesses were removed via evolution. Kain's Telekinesis works as a blast as I recall something that needs to be charged then launched. Cloud is fast enough to dodge the attack and start closing the range. Kain's biggest hope now seems to be taking over Clouds mind, he's never had the best mental defence, well it all depends on whether or not Kain can do this before Cloud levels the surrounding area with Bahumat. But remember Kain won't win killing Cloud the first time as final attack an Phoenix will not only revive him but attack Kain as well.

hehe a bit more of a discussion, ill quote from the game as Kain talks to Raziel "i too have taken a chance in coming here becasue YOU bear the ONLY weapon that can kill me" this is on Defiance in the Cathedral before their big fight, humans and other entities can only destroy Kains body, he simply reforms elsware, in the game its at checquepoints but i think Kain can simply reform anywhere he damwell pleaseses if he was in the real world. Also Kains TK according to Defiance allows him to move humans and weapons, throughout the game you can throw soldiers all over the place wheras its Raziel who can only do a bolt attack with TK, also about your Phenix attack, by killing Cloud once Kain Soulreaver Blade would of Drained Clouds energy and since CLoud has high power and strength draining him would prob fully charge the Reaver so that can can use the Time Reaver to slow down time so that Kain can kill cloud without threat, his Reaver will be Charged everytime he kills Cloud again and again so matter how many times he does come back Cloud is Doomed 😮‍💨

Hmm, well it's been about three years since I played Defiance but I think I remember that bit...it's just before Raziel tears out the Black Heart from his body right? Well either way I can't argue with the game itself, if the Reaver's the only thing that can kill him then so be it. However death is not the only method of victory, lest we forget Cloud has quite a lot of status magic such as paralyse, sleep and confuse. He has access to time magic, he can slow or stop Kain completely while speeding himself up. He has the goddamn cheap Remove spell which can wipe Kain from existence. And of course he has defensive magic like Wall and Cure to prevent and heal from wounds. If Kain tries a frontal assault to Cloud I guarantee he'll regret it. At his best Cloud has sixteen slots to place materia, 8 on his weapon and 8 on his armour, that's more than enough for him to do any of what I've suggested. He could quite literally freeze Kain in time take the Reaver and decapitate him with it. If Kain wants to win he'll have to play smart and take this to a ranged battle where he can use his mental powers. Remember Cloud isn't a normal human he's been enhanced by Mako, the lifeblood of the planet and Jenova cells he will not get stomped in this battle, I can see it going either way.

Originally posted by Lord Ryugen
Hmm, well it's been about three years since I played Defiance but I think I remember that bit...it's just before Raziel tears out the Black Heart from his body right? Well either way I can't argue with the game itself, if the Reaver's the only thing that can kill him then so be it. However death is not the only method of victory, lest we forget Cloud has quite a lot of status magic such as paralyse, sleep and confuse. He has access to time magic, he can slow or stop Kain completely while speeding himself up. He has the goddamn cheap Remove spell which can wipe Kain from existence. And of course he has defensive magic like Wall and Cure to prevent and heal from wounds. If Kain tries a frontal assault to Cloud I guarantee he'll regret it. At his best Cloud has sixteen slots to place materia, 8 on his weapon and 8 on his armour, that's more than enough for him to do any of what I've suggested. He could quite literally freeze Kain in time take the Reaver and decapitate him with it. If Kain wants to win he'll have to play smart and take this to a ranged battle where he can use his mental powers. Remember Cloud isn't a normal human he's been enhanced by Mako, the lifeblood of the planet and Jenova cells he will not get stomped in this battle, I can see it going either way.

Kain has much more magic tricks than Cloud does. And before Cloud even starts fighting Kain could paralise him with his TK and than just cut his head off.

Great, then just after he's done that a giant phoenix appears and blasts him, while Kain now tries to deal with his entire body becoming a first degree burn Cloud (now with a brand new head) casts stop lops both Kain's arms off, takes the Soul Reaver and stabs him in the face with it. Cloud without limits is incredibly cheap.

Originally posted by Lord Ryugen
Great, then just after he's done that a giant phoenix appears and blasts him, while Kain now tries to deal with his entire body becoming a first degree burn Cloud (now with a brand new head) casts stop lops both Kain's arms off, takes the Soul Reaver and stabs him in the face with it. Cloud without limits is incredibly cheap.

😆 😆 😆
C'mone! Cloud is very outclassed in this battle. One must real hate him to let him fight Kane.

Yes without any Materia and operating at a purely physical level Cloud is outmatched as Kain could teleport away from or simply take any attack Cloud could make. However this is Cloud at his best, that means he has the 16 materia I think is best as everyone who's played VII has a different view on the perfect set up for him. Armed with this little fact Kain's chances of victory fall dramatically, oh he can still win but he'll have to work his ass off to do it. Going physical would just mean Cloud rips him a new one with mastered magic, however if Kain is smart and plays mind games while keeping his distance (and preferably out of Cloud's range of vision) he could pick up the win. And I'd just like to remind you that Cloud can use the Manipulate Command Materia. It is entirely possible that Cloud could take over Kain's body and get him to stab himself.

Originally posted by Lord Ryugen
Yes without any Materia and operating at a purely physical level Cloud is outmatched as Kain could teleport away from or simply take any attack Cloud could make. However this is Cloud at his best, that means he has the 16 materia I think is best as everyone who's played VII has a different view on the perfect set up for him. Armed with this little fact Kain's chances of victory fall dramatically, oh he can still win but he'll have to work his ass off to do it. Going physical would just mean Cloud rips him a new one with mastered magic, however if Kain is smart and plays mind games while keeping his distance (and preferably out of Cloud's range of vision) he could pick up the win. And I'd just like to remind you that Cloud can use the Manipulate Command Materia. It is entirely possible that Cloud could take over Kain's body and get him to stab himself.

It's more possible that Kain will take controle over Cloud's body. Biggest Kain advantage in this fight is that he just can't die. He can't kill himself and noone can kill him even with Soul reaver blade. Rasiel was the only one who could have done it, and the reason why he could've was that it was written in history.
There is just no other way for Kain to die.

Just one thing, Kain like Cloud is operating at full power. That means he'll be using the ultimate version of Soul Reaver, you know the one at the end of Defiance. That's the one with Raziel's soul inside it after he'd absorbed the power of all the elemental forges into the wraith Reaver, the wraith Reaver that WAS Raziel's soul from an earlier period. So if Cloud does stab him with the Reaver then in a sense Raziel has killed Kain. God I love loopholes 😄

Originally posted by Lord Ryugen
Just one thing, Kain like Cloud is operating at full power. That means he'll be using the ultimate version of Soul Reaver, you know the one at the end of Defiance. That's the one with Raziel's soul inside it after he'd absorbed the power of all the elemental forges into the wraith Reaver, the wraith Reaver that WAS Raziel's soul from an earlier period. So if Cloud does stab him with the Reaver then in a sense Raziel has killed Kain. God I love loopholes 😄

😆 Nice version. But it's not like Kain will die if he'll be hit with blade that contains Rasiel's soul. He'll only die if Rasiel kills Kain himself on purpose. Anyway there is not a single chance that Cloud could take blade from Kain.

Clouds spells are not really instant as far as i remember, he doesnt do all his spell attacks at the speed of light, he has a moment even if its brief where he has to charge his power wheras Kain can simply use TK and defeat cloud that way, also Histroy will not let Kain Die either, even if kain gets impaled on his own sword with some sort of magic he cannot die becasue he is the scion of balance and in prohpecy he cannot be killed, also he is immune to mind power and manipulation quote from Blood Omen 2 "my mind is far too powerful for your mind tricks"

heres how the battle will go, first off Kain could simply TK cloud and freaze him in the air, Nothing cloud can do to prevent it and i doubt Cloud will be able to do any spells in time to prevent this, then Kain as i have said in one of my above posts will drain Clouds energy into the reaver killing him. If the Draining of his Soul and power emptieing his body of all life does not fully destroy him beyond the help of a Pheonix then can will have power in his Reaver for the Time Reaver spell and simply Kill Cloud in the same way every time he resurrects. Cloud has no chance of winning this battle IMO, just too many strengths in Kains hands 😮‍💨

Originally posted by Lord Ryugen
Great, then just after he's done that a giant phoenix appears and blasts him, while Kain now tries to deal with his entire body becoming a first degree burn Cloud (now with a brand new head) casts stop lops both Kain's arms off, takes the Soul Reaver and stabs him in the face with it. Cloud without limits is incredibly cheap.

How could Cloud come back to life without a soul?The Elder God would've already spun him a new life.

exactly, Clouds Phoenix would not work, no matter what happens once Kain Sticks his sword into Cloud, Cloud will simply lose all power and Soul and so will die wheras Kains death is never permanent, he always returns even if Raziel kills him as in prophecy, the prophecy of Kain being the Scion of balance over rules it and brings Kain back to life 😈