DE Sidious' Power

Originally posted by Escape81
I said that Force Storms were easily conjured by him. I said that the time was three to five seconds at best. They may require a staggering amount of ability. Secondly, no other SW character has replicated this feat - so while absence of proof is not proof of absence - I suppose that by your standards it is possible for DE Sidious to replicate Kreia's instakill, despite the fact that he never used it.

Secondly, Revan's tactical ability has nothing to do with his ranking in Force power. If that were the case, Thrawn would be above Revan - despite the fact that Thrawn had no Force abilities.

Thirdly, Revan is an unknown. You do not know the scope of his abilities, and neither do I. The reason is that it has not been expanded upon. At this point in the juncture, DE Sidious has performed abilities that place him above and beyond Revan - especially in Force abilities.

True, i do not doubt that DE Sidious is above Revan, until Kotor 3 comes out, but placing him on par with a Dark Lord like Kun, is getting biased.

Most Sithlords can produce force storms in 3-5 seconds, but their area of effect and its strength, varies because it may not neccesarrily be stronger due to a smaller force potential.

Its possible he could've, but its extremely unlikely that DE Sidious would replicate a technique that was done in the older era's while Force Storm was common knowledge amongst the Sith from the Ancients to the Kotor Era, however Force Storm is not unique, nor is its timing. You haven't proven that DE Sidious if ranked with Kun, sure you displayed a good solid evidence on Sidious's feats, but to be honest Kun's unique display of Sith Magic, and his ability to craft the first ever Double Bladed Lightsaber as well his ability to kill the De Facto Grandmaster and many other Jedi Masters with a wave of his hand or a stab from his saber, puts him leagues above Sidious. Although Sidious is no weakling, he does not rank with Kun nor any of the Ancient Sith. However with Revan that is an unknown, but it is know Sidious is in the top 20 most powerful force users ever.

Sorgo, back in the day Escape made plenty of better arguments then I've ever seen come out of you. You often make every argument a personal attack. Take your time before making critisism of every one of his words.

Escape, I agree with you that DE Sidious' power isn't nearly recognized to the level that it should be. That's mostly Lightsnake's fault, as his horrible arguments ruined the character for most people.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sorgo, back in the day Escape made plenty of better arguments then I've ever seen come out of you. You often make every argument a personal attack. Take your time before making critisism of every one of his words.

Escape, I agree with you that DE Sidious' power isn't nearly recognized to the level that it should be. That's mostly Lightsnake's fault, as his horrible arguments ruined the character for most people.

You're the last person who has any right of saying ANYTHING about another's quality of arguing when you're Mr. Logic Breaker in your arguments.

Not to mention, lots of people are irritated with your shoddy quality of arguing, which is most of the time consistant of you repeating yourself perpetually or saying something out right stupid.

Y'know, like George Lucas' word isn't proof and that the Sidious VS Yoda fight wasn't Canon.

Take your time before spewing such pathetic hypocrisy.

Every word is a personal attack because I'm damn tired of people like YOU!

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sorgo, back in the day Escape made plenty of better arguments then I've ever seen come out of you. You often make every argument a personal attack. Take your time before making critisism of every one of his words.

Escape, I agree with you that DE Sidious' power isn't nearly recognized to the level that it should be. That's mostly Lightsnake's fault, as his horrible arguments ruined the character for most people.

Funny, considering you were quick to accuse me of PT fanboyism when I debated against you in DTF. . . And actually, Escape's post was slightly more defensive than necessary, considering Sorgo wasn't attacking him the first time around.

Honestly, I think you all need to take a step back and calm down. There's no point in creating these schisms over the power, however underestimated, of Sidious.

Originally posted by Faunus
Funny, considering you were quick to accuse me of PT fanboyism when I debated against you in DTF. . . And actually, Escape's post was slightly more defensive than necessary, considering Sorgo wasn't attacking him the first time around.

Honestly, I think you all need to take a step back and calm down. There's no point in creating these schisms over the power, however underestimated, of Sidious.

Words of wisdom.

Sorgo, I at least attempt to make quality arguments, you on the other hand attack from the very start. So until you finally come up with a better argument then me, don't insult me, because I really don't give a damn what you have to say.

Let me tell you a few things on your claims though, as I never argued that Yoda vs. Sidious isn't canon. I did say that GL's word is not canon though because it goes against the movies. Did OT Vader appear to be 80% as powerful as Sidious? Also, if Anakin really did have ten times the potential of Sidious, as GL stated, then why would losing only half his body mass make him a mere 80% as powerful as Sidious? GL contradicts himself far to often to be a reliable source of information.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sorgo, when you finally come up with a better argument then me you can talk. Until then, don't insult me, because I really don't give a damn what you have to say.

And obviously you have no clue what you are talking about as I never argued that Yoda vs. Sidious isn't canon. I did say that GL's word is not canon though because it goes against the movies. Did OT Vader appear to be 80% as powerful as Sidious? Also, if Anakin really did have ten times the potential of Sidious, as GL stated, then why would losing only half his body mass make him a mere 80% as powerful as Sidious. GL contradicts himself far to often to be a reliable source of information.

You should give a damn about what I have to say. It's all factual statements.

Don't try to act like a superior debater than me because you aren't.

Actually, I'm getting f*cking tired of you trying to degrade my debating skills to make yourself look better.

Your Arrogance and shitty excuses are truthfully no surprise at all.

You're trying to say that the Man who created the Star Wars Universe isn't a "Reliable Source of Information?"

I'd love to see you create something a QUARTER as good as Star Wars and let's see if you don't trip over yourself in contradiction, Glentract.

You have argued that their battle wasn't Canon. Janus was jumping around these Forums with a signature saying that you did and he showed me the thread one time.

I wish I could remember it JUST to squash your lying ass into the ground, along with your pathetic display of arrogance and stupidity.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Sorgo, I at least attempt to make quality arguments, you on the other hand attack from the very start. So until you finally come up with a better argument then me, don't insult me, because I really don't give a damn what you have to say.

Let me tell you a few things on your claims though, as I never argued that Yoda vs. Sidious isn't canon. I did say that GL's word is not canon though because it goes against the movies. Did OT Vader appear to be 80% as powerful as Sidious? Also, if Anakin really did have ten times the potential of Sidious, as GL stated, then why would losing only half his body mass make him a mere 80% as powerful as Sidious? GL contradicts himself far to often to be a reliable source of information.

No, you DID say that we couldn't rely on Sidious versus Yoda because it was "too inconsistant".

You also use GL to support you when he does and then piss on him when he doesn't support you. YOU are inconsistant, not everything else. You think that Luke is magically better than he really is in the movies, and when I point out that he's not you say GL says he's better and when I point out he doesn't you go to some other point. You're a bad debator and a fanboy. Being called poor by you is pure hypocrisy.

The problem is that none of you got my point when I said that the fights in SW are inconsistent. I'll say that was my fault, I didn't explain what I was trying to say well enough. I was making at the time an argument that is commonly used. My point was that bad technology in ROTJ made the fights not as good as they would be if they were made now. I later admitted that idea isn't a good argument.

Janus, I tried using GL to support what I was saying back a long time ago. I was arguing for OT Vader, saying that he is 80% as strong as Sidious, meaning that he could beat some guy who's name I don't remember. YOU argued that GL is a non-reliable source that we couldn't consider a higher level of canon. You changed mind. Later, when I make the same argument that you used against me, it's suddenly the way around? Now GL is a higher level of canon then the movies? WTF is up with you. You change you story as often, if not more, then I do.

Can you really say that my arguments are worse then Sorgo's when throughout this entire thread he has yet to make a single argument against Sidious? He attacked Escape and then he attacked me. And really, I admit to not being the best debator on the block, but I try to keep personal attacks to a minimum. The same can't be said Mr. Sorgo here.

You should give a damn about what I have to say. It's all factual statements.

Don't try to act like a superior debater than me because you aren't.

Actually, I'm getting f*cking tired of you trying to degrade my debating skills to make yourself look better.

Your Arrogance and shitty excuses are truthfully no surprise at all.

You're trying to say that the Man who created the Star Wars Universe isn't a "Reliable Source of Information?"

I'd love to see you create something a QUARTER as good as Star Wars and let's see if you don't trip over yourself in contradiction, Glentract.

You have argued that their battle wasn't Canon. Janus was jumping around these Forums with a signature saying that you did and he showed me the thread one time.

I wish I could remember it JUST to squash your lying ass into the ground, along with your pathetic display of arrogance and stupidity.

Where's this awsome debating skill Sorgo? All I see are a bunch of personal attacks and zero agruments against DE Sidious.

Janus, I tried using GL to support what I was saying back a long time ago. I was arguing for OT Vader, saying that he is 80% as strong as Sidious, meaning that he could beat some guy who's name I don't remember. YOU argued that GL is a non-reliable source that we couldn't consider a higher level of canon. You changed mind. Later, when I make the same argument that you used against me, it's suddenly the way around? Now GL is a higher level of canon then the movies? WTF is up with you. You change you story as often, if not more, then I do.

I love the redirection.

Glentract, I've said that GL is NOT the superior figure in EU matters because he signed off on it and he did not create EU characters. EU is effectively not canon. The instance you're thinking about is when you took the 80% of Vader as a literal fact and truth and applied it with some of the worst mathematics to grace KMC and made some kind of cocked up theory with it. Also, you have tried to apply TWO theories supposively from GL: one that Vader's original potential was 10x Sidious; second, that OT Vader is 80% of Sidious, and therefore higher than other people in the PT and therefore Luke pwns them. I told you that IF George Lucas said those things THEN he was not a reliable source of information because he could not make up his mind. Please put things in proper context, kthx.

I am pretty damn consistant, btw. I use evidence and I have an objective outlook. You are biased, poor at debating, and a certified bullshitter who thinks he knows more than everyone else.

Can you really say that my arguments are worse then Sorgo's when throughout this entire thread he has yet to make a single argument against Sidious? He attacked Escape and then he attacked me. And really, I admit to not being the best debator on the block, but I try to keep personal attacks to a minimum. The same can't be said Mr. Sorgo here.

Cuz they are. Sorgo doesn't come to me with cocked up pseudoscience theories or tell me that GL doesn't make canon for his own movies despite evidence otherwise (Check the SW canon policy, Glentract.... what the hell). Sorgo doesn't come to me and tell me that Luke is better because he beat Vader who is eighty per cent of ten times of Sidious who beat Yoda, therefore Luke > PT Jedi Council.

I'm not here to point out whether or not Sorgo is justified in his attacks because I personally don't give a damn. I just hate to see you pretending like you're the most level headed and nice person here when you're a damn hypocrite.

Are you hearing what I'm saying? I'm admitting that I'm not the best at debating. I've been saying it for a long time. How would that help me in pretending that I'm the most knowledgeable person here?

The instance I'm thinking about I was arguing for Vader, not Luke.

Oh, and once you can show how my arguments are based on pseudoscience, then you can call them that. Assuming that my arguments are pseudoscience right off the bat is stupid. Prove my math wrong, until then you have no basis to call me a fanboy(except ROTJ Luke. I admit that I am a fanboy there) or a bullshitter.

Where's this awsome debating skill Sorgo? All I see are a bunch of personal attacks and zero agruments against DE Sidious.

I never bragged or compared my Debating skills.

Wait a minute now... That was you! And it looks like you've displayed a taste of your shitty debating skills.

'Tis a shame.

Can you really say that my arguments are worse then Sorgo's when throughout this entire thread he has yet to make a single argument against Sidious? He attacked Escape and then he attacked me. And really, I admit to not being the best debator on the block, but I try to keep personal attacks to a minimum. The same can't be said Mr. Sorgo here.

I attacked Escape now? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?

I pointed out the obvious. His threads are 80% Sidious-related, Most of the time he is seen arguing about that character and he continues to make "Support" threads complaining that no one appreciates Sidious as some lame excuse to cover his Fanboyism.

You should try to keep those shoddy debating skills to a minimum as well, Glentract.

The primary reason I posted in this thread is because of the fact Escape is perpetually seen praising Sidious and such.

It's ridiculous and idiotic.

Hell, when I was a Dooku Fanboy, I didn't make one thread praising him and I never tried covering it up. I told the truth about it.

I hate people that lie about Fanboyism.

Especially those who deny it.

Especially Luke Fanboys.

I never bragged or compared my Debating skills.

Wait a minute now... That was you! And it looks like you've displayed a taste of your shitty debating skills.

'Tis a shame.

BS.

Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
Don't try to act like a superior debater than me because you aren't.

I attacked Escape now? Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?

BS.

Originally posted by Lörd Sorgo
The maneuver of an Amateur, Escape.

You're going to try to shift responsibility for what I USED to do for another lame ass excuse to cover up your shitty Fanboyism?

Good job, liar.

Once you provide an actual argument rather then a bunch of BS personal attacks against DE Sidious, you can talk. Until then STFU.

So, Saying that your debating skills aren't superior to mine is bragging?

Now you're trying to turn the tables.

Give me a second while I turn them back.

Saying that you aren't a Superior Debater isn't bragging or comparing. Anyone with half a brain could see that from a Mile away.

That post was a defense against Escape lashing out at the "Fact" I had mentioned. Why don't you quote the post he made before I made that post, Glentract? Here, I can wait.

What's this? Looks like you've been caught in some bullshit of your own.

Congratulations, Glentract! You're a HYPOCRITE!

I won't STFU.

I suggest you make me STFU rather than just type a useless acronym.

Go big or go home.

So, Saying that your debating skills aren't superior to mine is bragging?

Now you're trying to turn the tables.

Give me a second while I turn them back.

Saying that you aren't a Superior Debater isn't bragging or comparing. Anyone with half a brain could see that from a Mile away.

I don't know what such statements mean where you come from, but where I live, such statements are bragging.

That post was a defense against Escape lashing out at the "Fact" I had mentioned. Why don't you quote the post he made before I made that post, Glentract? Here, I can wait.

Now, considering how you were a Dooku-uberfanboy for the majority of your tenure here (which is long before I came along), I don't think you hold the proper weight to criticize me, or imply anything.

Guess what, he's right. You were the uber Dooku fanboy. But apparently since you no longer are, then we shouldn't ever look back at that. Then the same would go for me and some of my less great statements.

What's this? Looks like you've been caught in some bullshit of your own.

Congratulations, Glentract! You're a HYPOCRITE!

I won't STFU.

I suggest you make me STFU rather than just type a useless acronym.

Go big or go home.

That was really disappointing Sorgo. All I got from you was more misplaced insults. Where is that arguments against DE Sidious?

I don't know what such statements mean where you come from, but where I live, such statements are bragging.

So, ME saying that YOU are not a Superior Debater is bragging where you live? I smell more bullshit . . . Or an excuse . . . NO! BOTH!

Guess what, he's right. You were the uber Dooku fanboy. But apparently since you no longer are, then we shouldn't ever look back at that. Then the same would go for me and some of my less great statements.

MORE HYPOCRISY! YAY!

This is coming from the ultimate Luke Fanboy who is still one TO THIS DAY!

I am no longer a Dooku fanboy. I can accept that certain Characters can wipe the floor with him and that he isn't Uber strong. Even when I was a Fanboy many months ago, I didn't create a bunch of threads nor did I just stick to arguing about him NOR did I deny my Fanboyism with a crappy excuse.

By the way: Like I said before, he switched responsibility from him to me for something I don't even practice anymore.

That was really disappointing Sorgo. All I got from you was more misplaced insults. Where is that arguments against DE Sidious?

Misplaced Insults? It seems you've lied again to cover up a lie.

How damn pathetic. I'm tired of playing Semantics with you, Glentract. I've explained to you why I've come to thread at least twice now. Are you inept at reading or does your awareness just flat out suck?

Escape is a Sidious Fanboy.

Do you even understand that concept yet?

There, I threw out a f*cking accusation. I'm not dancing around this shit anymore.

Where the hell are your arguments against Sidious? You CANNOT reasonably call Escape a fanboy until you prove that his statements towards Sidious being powerful aren't true. Do that or shut up. It's simple.

No, I didn't answer the rest of your statements as they're so full of BS it's sick.

[B]Where the hell are your arguments against Sidious? You CANNOT reasonably call Escape a fanboy until you prove that his statements towards Sidious being powerful aren't true. Do that or shut up. It's simple.

No, I didn't answer the rest of your statements as they're so full of BS it's sick.

It's all been said before.

An Author cannot dictate that kind of conclusion on a Character he didn't create.

Fine, I'll go create a book and say Kit Fisto is stronger than Sidious, okay?

^ Does that mean it's true? Of course not.

Lucas has mentioned that the Authors have a seperate universe than his. Kevin's opinion is moot.

You didn't answer the rest of my statements because you're unable to.

You just lied again and you're saying I'm lying? That's more hypocrisy.

Holy, I'm running in circles with you!

What was my lie? You're so lost in dillusions you can't even tell that I don't care what you think because you are an idiot.

Again, where is your proof that Sidious isn't as strong as Escape claims?

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
What was my lie? You're so lost in dillusions you can't even tell that I don't care what you think because you are an idiot.

Again, where is your proof that Sidious isn't as strong as Escape claims?

You lied about calling my statements BS which were all true to the fullest. You admitted yourself you're a Luke Fanboy, Escape is a Fanboy and I'm no longer a Dooku Fanboy.

You complete moron. I just stated it above, for christs sakes!

Again, are you inept at reading or does your awareness just suck?

Let me join in the game!

Where is your proof that Sidious isn't as weak as Janus claims?

Like I said earlier, read my motive for coming here.

You obviously still lack the understanding.