Prove creationism...I'll shut up!

Started by THE JLRTENJAC63 pages

Re: Prove creationism...I'll shut up!

Originally posted by lord xyz
Prove to me that creationism is the true origin of life without mentioning these:

[list]
[*]god
[*]bible
[*]jesus
[*]religion
[*]evolution
[*]anything to do with the above

[/list]

...wow... how are you supposed to prove the existance of God without mentioning God or Religion...

Furthermore, you are like a person who doesn't believe in evolution. Anything said in an attempt to prove, or atleast show the possibility of, will be instantly dis-credited due to your own narrow-mindedness.

well you evidence at hand to make your claim of intellegent design it is not that hard...

It was a responce to the prove evolution thread, and not mentioning those were so it wasn't seen as religion.

Like, observing something, and then coming up with a theory for that observation, then testing that theory to see if it's true.

i was just bored arguing with JIA... i decided to find another thread for refuge..

Originally posted by xyz revolution
I know that. But christians don't. I mean that Inteligent Design thing. The one true creator. It cannot be described without the bible which is why it isn't a science. To say it was all created at an instant craps all over development of beings.

Shouldn't you ask someone to prove evolution to you? I mean...you have no idea what it is...perhaps when you understand the theory you believe in you will be able to better criticise other people's ideas?

the topic here is to prove creationism not the other way around.

Re: Prove creationism...I'll shut up!

Originally posted by lord xyz
Prove to me that creationism is the true origin of life without mentioning these:

[list]
[*]god
[*]bible
[*]jesus
[*]religion
[*]evolution
[*]anything to do with the above

[/list]

You're an idiot. I'm sure people have told you that already but I think it just needs to be reiterated.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
You're an idiot. I'm sure people have told you that already but I think it just needs to be reiterated.

Oh come one, give the guy a break, he's been an idiot almost three years ago...you should really judge him by his recent posts.

Originally posted by Wild Shadow
the topic here is to prove creationism not the other way around.

That may be, but in discussion boards you often find discussion not conforming to set parameters. In this case he is talking about creationism...I think it is perfectly valid for someone to ask him (a person who attacks one theory) to explain why he supports the other...the irony is he knows nothing about evolution and thus is taking it as truth purely on the word of someone else...i.e. faith.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison

Intelligent Design is just a code word for Christianity.

The majority of world religions preach and worship a "higher power," not just Christianity. Nonetheless, Creationism/Intelligent Design (ID) is merely the byproduct of scientific advances/understanding over the past 40 years! Religion has (or had) diddly-squat to do with this progression (of understanding).

And why would it be otherwise?!

Darwin, for example, only had a "basic" understanding of the cell's function, and Darwin didn't have the slightest idea of "how" the cell carried out the function! Today, molecular biologists do -- at least, more than Darwin -- thanks to scientific/technological advances.

That is what changed opinion; and that is what created new theories.

When Einstein confirmed that the Cosmos had a beginning, Naturalists -- even Einstein himself! -- didn't embrace the findings. Today, it is excepted as fact! And Einstein later agreed. This had nothing to do with religion and/or Scripture.

Change the record already, please.

Originally posted by ushomefree

[size=4]The majority of world religions preach and worship a "higher power," not just Christianity. Nonetheless, Creationism/Intelligent Design (ID) is merely the byproduct of scientific advances/understanding over the past 40 years! Religion has (or had) diddly-squat to do with this progression (of understanding).

And why would it be otherwise?!

Darwin, for example, only had a "basic" understanding of the cell's function, and Darwin didn't have the slightest idea of "how" the cell carried out the function! Today, molecular biologists do -- at least, more than Darwin -- thanks to scientific/technological advances.

That is what changed opinion; and that is what created new theories.

When Einstein confirmed that the Cosmos had a beginning, Naturalists -- even Einstein himself! -- didn't embrace the findings. Today, it is excepted as fact! And Einstein later agreed. This had nothing to do with religion and/or Scripture.

Change the record already, please.

👆

http://www.realtruth.org/articles/070601-006-teog.html

The Existence of God
Logically Proven!
PERSONAL FROM DAVID C. PACK, PUBLISHER/EDITOR-IN-CHIEF

The Most Perfect Clock

You probably have a watch. Without it, you would be lost in a world that demands that people “be on time.”
Some watches are more accurate than others. How accurate is yours? How long before it loses a second? When this happens, you adjust it by reckoning from a more accurate source. That source, whatever it is, is also imperfect and has to be regularly updated, though not as often, to be in accord with the Master Clock of the United States at the Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.

For many years, until 1967, Naval Observatory astronomers “observed” the motion of the earth, in relation to the heavens, to accurately measure time. All clocks in this country were set in relation to these very precise measurements. It was God who made this Master Clock of the Universe! He set the heavens in motion and mankind learned how to use its wonderful accuracy. As marvelous as this Great Clock is, the story does not end here.

In 1967, scientists built an “Atomic Clock.” It uses Cesium 133 atoms because they oscillate (vibrate) at the rate of 9,192,631,770 times per second. This produces accuracy within ONE SECOND EVERY 30 MILLION YEARS! Wouldn’t you love a watch that accurate? Cesium 133 atoms never vary a single vibration. They are steady—constant—reliable—and cannot be an accident of nature that just “happens” to always turn out exactly the same. God had to design the complexity and reliability of these atoms. No honest mind can believe otherwise. Men merely learned how to capture what God designed, for use in time measurement. Again, the story continues.

Doubters, consider this! Scientists in Boulder, Colorado, at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, have built an optical clock that is even more accurate. How? By measuring time with light. Time is now measured in what are called femtoseconds—or a million-billionth of a second. These clocks use mercury ions at their “heart” to count the number of times they vibrate in a second.

Optical frequencies regularly oscillate at one million-billion (1,000,000,000,000,000—one quadrillion) times per second. By using lasers and “cooled down” mercury ions, scientists have harnessed God’s precision to better measure time. Optical clocks only slip by ONE SECOND EVERY 30 BILLION YEARS! This is 1,000 times more accurate than atomic clocks!

All human watchmakers use extraordinary precision in their work. Quartz watches measure time by counting the exact number of oscillations of a quartz crystal through use of a digital counter. Digital clocks use the oscillations of quartz crystals or power lines (60 cycles per second in the United States), but may also count through use of digital counters. Grandfather clocks use the swing of a pendulum, once every second and recorded by metal gears inside the clock, to keep time.

As with the movement of the heavens, men have learned to capture the reliability of Cesium 133 atoms and the movement of cooled mercury ions to count time. Their number of oscillations per second never varies. Could this perfect order be the product of an accident?

In summary, only with great time and effort, the finest watchmakers in the world can, at best, devise several kinds of relatively imprecise clocks. Can any honest, fair-minded person then believe that the three highly precise clocks—the heavens, atomic and optical clocks—came about by accident? In other words, are we to believe that while very sophisticated, humanly devised watches required the effort and ingenuity of skilled, intelligent men to create them, clocks of far greater sophistication, precision and design developed on their own? How utterly ridiculous!

You have seen ABSOLUTE PROOF that only the “Greatest Watchmaker” could have devised these “greatest watches.”

The First Law of Thermodynamics
What is the truth of modern science regarding the origin of all matter in the universe? Do scientists tell us that it has always existed? Or have they determined that there was a moment in time in which all matter came into existence? The answer to the second question is, yes! But what is the proof that this is true?

The FIRST LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS is stated as follows: Matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed. There are no natural processes that can alter either matter or energy in this way. This means that there is no new matter or energy coming into existence and there is no new matter or energy passing out of existence. All who state that the universe came into existence from nothing violate the first law of thermodynamics, which was established by the very scientific community who now seem willing to ignore it. In summary, this law plainly demonstrates that the universe, and all matter and energy within it, must have had a divine origin—a specific moment in which it was created by someone who was all-powerful.

With the coming of the Atomic Age, beginning with the discovery of radium in 1898 by Madame Curie, came the knowledge that all radioactive elements continually give off radiation. Consider! Uranium has an atomic weight of 238.0. As it decomposes, it releases a helium atom three times. Each helium atom has a weight of 4. With the new weight of 226.0, uranium becomes radium. Radium continues to give off additional atoms until eventually the end product becomes the heavy inert element called lead. This takes a tremendous amount of time. While the process of uranium turning into radium is very long, the radium turns into lead in 1,590 years.

What are we saying? There was a point in time when the uranium could not have existed, because it always breaks down in a highly systematic, controlled way. It is not stable like lead or other elements. It breaks down. This means there was a specific moment in time when all radioactive elements came into existence. Remember, all of them—uranium, radium, thorium, radon, polonium, francium, protactinium and others—have not existed forever. This represents absolute proof that matter came into existence or, in other words, matter has not always existed!

This flies directly in the face of evolutionary thought—that everything gradually evolved into something else. Here is the problem. You cannot have something slowly come into existence from nothing! Matter could not have come into existence by itself. No rational person could believe that the entire universe—including all of the radioactive elements that prove there was a specific time of beginning—gradually came into existence BY ITSELF!

Through your own efforts, try to build something—anything—from nothing. Even with your creative power engaged in the effort, you would never be able to do it. You will not be able—in a hundred lifetimes of trying—to produce a single thing from NOTHING! Then, can any doubter believe that everything in the entirety of the universe, in all of its exquisite detail, came into existence completely by itself? Be honest. Accept facts. This is proof that the existing natural realm demands the existence of a Great Creator!

The Second Law of Thermodynamics

The SECOND LAW OF THERMODYNAMICS is best summarized by saying that everything moves toward disorder—or a condition known as entropy. This bears some explanation and we will consider several examples.

Remember that evolutionists teach that everything is constantly evolving into a higher and more complex order. In other words, they believe things continue to get better and better instead of worse and worse.

If water being heated on a stove is at 150 degrees Fahrenheit, and the burner is turned off, the temperature will drop instead of rise. It will move toward colder rather than hotter. If a ball is placed on a hill, it will always roll downhill and not uphill. Energy used to perform any particular task changes from usable energy to unusable in the performing of that task. It will always go from a higher energy level to a lower energy level—where less and less energy is available for use.
When applied to the universe, the second law of thermodynamics indicates that the universe is winding down—moving toward disorder or entropy—not winding up or moving toward more perfect order and structure. In short, the entire universe is WINDING DOWN!

Even evolutionists admit that the theory of evolution and the second law of thermodynamics are completely incompatible with each other. Consider: “Regarding the second law of thermodynamics (universally accepted scientific law which states that all things left to themselves will tend to run down) or the law of entropy, it is observed, ‘It would hardly be possible to conceive of two more completely opposite principles than this principle of entropy increase and the principle of evolution. Each is precisely the converse of the other. As (Aldous) Huxley defined it, evolution involves a continual increase of order, of organization, of size, of complexity. It seems axiomatic that both cannot possibly be true. But there is no question whatever that the second law of thermodynamics is true’” (Morris, Henry M., The Twilight of Evolution, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1967, p. 35).

Like a top or a yo-yo, the universe must have been “wound up.” Since the universe is constantly winding down, the second law of thermodynamics looms before us in the form of a great question: Who wound it up? The only plausible answer is God!

The Great Proof of Creation

We have established that creation demands a Creator. The next few paragraphs introduce some amazing scientific proofs of creation.
The theory of evolution is shot full of inconsistencies. Evolutionists have seized on many theories, within the overall theory of evolution, in an attempt to explain the origins of plants, animals, the heavens and the earth.
Over and over, these “theorists” try to explain how life evolved from inanimate material into more complex life forms until it reached the pinnacle—human beings.

Yet, as one geologist wrote, “It must be significant that nearly all the evolutionary stories I learned as student…have been debunked” (Dr. Derek V. Ager, Dept. of Geology, Imperial College, London, The Nature of the Fossil Record, Proceedings of the Geological Assoc., Vol. 87, 1976, pp. 1132-1133).
Perhaps the biggest reason that so many theories within the overall theory of evolution collapse is because they contain terrible logic requiring great leaps in faith to believe. Here is one example of a “debunked” theory: “Many evolutionists have tried to argue that humans are 99% similar chemically to apes and blood precipitation tests do indicate that the chimpanzee is people’s closest relative. Yet regarding this we must observe the following: ‘Milk chemistry indicates that the donkey is man’s closest relative.’ ‘Cholesterol level tests indicate that the garter snake is man’s closest relative.’ ‘Tear enzyme chemistry indicates that the chicken is man’s closest relative.’ ‘On the basis of another type of blood chemistry test, the butter bean is man’s closest relative’” (Morris, Henry M., The Twilight of Evolution, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1967).

Complexity of Life

Everyone has witnessed explosions. Have you ever seen one that was orderly? Or one that created a watch or a clock? Or one that produced a single thing of exquisite design—instead of the certain result of chaos and destruction? If you threw a million hand grenades, you would see them produce chaos and destruction a million times! There would never be an exception.

Consider the following quotes, involving the likelihood of an explosion creating the entire natural realm of life all around us on earth—let alone the beautiful magnificence and order seen no matter how far one looks out into space.

Dr. B. G. Ranganathan said, “…the probability of life originating from accident is comparable to the unabridged dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing shop” (Origins?, p. 15). And this only speaks to the likelihood of any life at all, rather than the most highly complex forms such as large animals or human beings—let alone all the different kinds of life that exist today.
For more undeniable proof of the existence of God, be sure to read Does God Exist?

Copyright © 2009 The REAL TRUTH. All Rights Reserved.

http://www.realtruth.org/articles/070601-006-teog.html

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]We have established that creation demands a Creator.

Prove it. Then prove a creator.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]The theory of evolution is shot full of inconsistencies. Evolutionists have seized on many theories, within the overall theory of evolution, in an attempt to explain the origins of plants, animals, the heavens and the earth.

The Theory of Natural Selction is sound and has notihg to do with rocks. Evolution is also a sound theory and there is no such thing as the "evolution" of a planet that is comparable to the evolution of life. The word has different conotations that you are too dense to understand.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Over and over, these “theorists” try to explain how life evolved from inanimate material into more complex life forms until it reached the pinnacle—human beings.

No evolutionary biologist would use the term "pinnacle" to describe humans. That just shows who your crap was written by. Also, no "theorists" developed biological theories of evolutoin.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Yet, as one geologist wrote, “It must be significant that nearly all the evolutionary stories I learned as student…have been debunked” (Dr. Derek V. Ager, Dept. of Geology, Imperial College, London, The Nature of the Fossil Record, Proceedings of the Geological Assoc., Vol. 87, 1976, pp. 1132-1133).

So because you study rocks means you know about evolution? And this was 40 years ago lol.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Perhaps the biggest reason that so many theories within the overall theory of evolution collapse is because they contain terrible logic requiring great leaps in faith to believe. Here is one example of a “debunked” theory: “Many evolutionists have tried to argue that humans are 99% similar chemically to apes and blood precipitation tests do indicate that the chimpanzee is people’s closest relative. Yet regarding this we must observe the following: ‘Milk chemistry indicates that the donkey is man’s closest relative.’ ‘Cholesterol level tests indicate that the garter snake is man’s closest relative.’ ‘Tear enzyme chemistry indicates that the chicken is man’s closest relative.’ ‘On the basis of another type of blood chemistry test, the butter bean is man’s closest relative’” (Morris, Henry M., The Twilight of Evolution, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1967).

LMAO. First of all "Faith" is the basis of religion, not science. Also, since 1967, we have discovered fields of science like, MOLECULAR BIOLOGY and GENETICS, which is actually the basis of evolutionary biology, not the similarity of proteins found in breast milk which is neither a wholistic nor a relevant comparison of two species. Such an idiotic assumption is like saying a cherry is closest to a apple because both are red.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Everyone has witnessed explosions. Have you ever seen one that was orderly?
I wasn't created in an explosion, were you?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Or one that created a watch or a clock? Or one that produced a single thing of exquisite design—instead of the certain result of chaos and destruction? If you threw a million hand grenades, you would see them produce chaos and destruction a million times! There would never be an exception.

Because using analogies from the 16th centruy NEVER gets old!

Have you evern considered a snowflake? Eve evrything is JUST about entropy, how do beautiful and ORDERD 6 sides crystals form?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[B]Consider the following quotes, involving the likelihood of an explosion creating the entire natural realm of life all around us on earth—let alone the beautiful magnificence and order seen no matter how far one looks out into space.

The big bang has nothign to do with an explosion or evolution...and the big bang did not create earth. Nice distraction though. I was ALMOST fooled.

Originally posted by Ordo
Prove it. Then prove a creator.

The Theory of Natural Selction is sound and has notihg to do with rocks. Evolution is also a sound theory and there is no such thing as the "evolution" of a planet that is comparable to the evolution of life. The word has different conotations that you are too dense to understand.

No evolutionary biologist would use the term "pinnacle" to describe humans. That just shows who your crap was written by. Also, no "theorists" developed biological theories of evolutoin.

So because you study rocks means you know about evolution? And this was 40 years ago lol.

LMAO. First of all "Faith" is the basis of religion, not science. Also, since 1967, we have discovered fields of science like, MOLECULAR BIOLOGY and GENETICS, which is actually the basis of evolutionary biology, not the similarity of proteins found in breast milk which is neither a wholistic nor a relevant comparison of two species. Such an idiotic assumption is like saying a cherry is closest to a apple because both are red.

I wasn't created in an explosion, were you?

Because using analogies from the 16th centruy NEVER gets old!

Have you evern considered a snowflake? Eve evrything is JUST about entropy, how do beautiful and ORDERD 6 sides crystals form?

The big bang has nothign to do with an explosion or evolution...and the big bang did not create earth. Nice distraction though. I was ALMOST fooled.

You appear to have ignored the watch analogy, first law of thermodynamics, etc.

High level order and high level information content and design are two totally different things relative to the snowflake.

I'm not quite sure why some people feel that Creationism and Evolution can no co-exist.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I'm not quite sure why some people feel that Creationism and Evolution can no co-exist.

Time and a literal interpretation of the bible is the real problem.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I'm not quite sure why some people feel that Creationism and Evolution can no co-exist.

because science requires scientific method to explain the world around us using logic.. while creationism denies everything that is evolution and scientific method and responds with poof god did it dont explain it because you are wrong.

That's not true.

Originally posted by Final Blaxican
I'm not quite sure why some people feel that Creationism and Evolution can no co-exist.

The two cannot coexist because humans are created in the image and likeness of God (according to the Bible). But evolution purports that humans are animals (or descended from animals) which is blasphemy since humans are created in God's image and likeness.