Its human nature for people to think that a crime is 10x worse as it happens to them... These quick to point out how its bad, and even quicker to point out a short term solution... (generally longer prison sentences or death...)
Where as they should trace these crimes history... I find it hard to believe people are born wanting to be criminals, there upbringing has brought about there crimes...
Originally posted by Hit_and_Miss
I find it hard to believe people are born wanting to be criminals, there upbringing has brought about there crimes...
It would be foolish to say that people are born wanting to be criminals but I think that blaming their crimes completely on their upbringing denies the fact that no matter how bad things are humans still have choices in what they do.
Originally posted by Gregory
It's no use trying to define laws according to "morality," because nobody can decide what's moral and what isn't. Why is it illegal to kill people? Because society would collapse otherwise. Morality never enters into it.
But morality is always defined according to morality even if nobody can decide what's moral and what isn't. Laws are not make only to protect society, slavery does not make society collapse, it even a good thing since you will have people working for free. A very centralized state and government is the better one if you don´t want society to collapse, but it is not encouraged and constitution does not allow it because it is a tyranny, and tyrannies are just a problem if you take morality in consideration.
Here's a point- laws may try to reflect the moral reason of the majority or deciding party in a nation, but this does not mean the ideas are dependant on each other. The law of zoning and housing regulations or the laws of gaining citizenship aren't dependant on morality at all. Of course, laws for the most part are made to grease the wheels of society so that society exists and operates. To "divorce" the notion of morality (Whether yours, mine, or another's) from laws 100% is like saying I want to watch a football game where the goal is not to touch the ball.
Also something to keep in mind- just because many different views on morality exist doesn't validate them all. I've noticed a lot of people embracing subjectivism in ethics, and it's rather amusing; if you truly believe that all things are relative, why argue?
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Odd thing to say, Gregory.What else are laws in democratic society, if not an attempt to define what is moral or not?
A way to protect society. For example, most people wouldn't say that speed limits are a moral question, but they are governed by law because if people felt they could go at whatever speed they pleased along the road, it would be a disaster; the roads would no longer be safe.
Likewise, murder must be illegal not because it's immoral, but because if people were allowed to murder anyone who annoyed them, the streets would not be safe, and society couldn't function.
What about slavery ? Society will not collapse with it. It is even good for society since it gives workers for free. It is not a problem for society.
What about democracy, and freedom of speech? It is not needed for a society to work, you can get a powerful society with a very centralized state. Freedom of speech can cause problems for society since there is to many impediments, to many opinions to consider. This weakens the power to take action.
Why should law grants us any rights if they are really not needed to protect society. Why should we have the right to vote, or to be payed for our jobs. It even weakens society, powerful states ascended by not following these moral principles.
Originally posted by Atlantis001
What about slavery ? Society will not collapse with it. It is even good for society since it gives workers for free. It is not a problem for society.What about democracy, and freedom of speech? It is not needed for a society to work, you can get a powerful society with a very centralized state. Freedom of speech can cause problems for society since there is to many impediments, to many opinions to consider. This weakens the power to take action.
Why should law grants us any rights if they are really not needed to protect society. Why should we have the right to vote, or to be payed for our jobs. It even weakens society, powerful states ascended by not following these moral principles.
Laws are not their to protect Society but to protect the members of Society.
What about slavery ? Society will not collapse with it. It is even good for society since it gives workers for free. It is not a problem for society.What about democracy, and freedom of speech? It is not needed for a society to work, you can get a powerful society with a very centralized state. Freedom of speech can cause problems for society since there is to many impediments, to many opinions to consider. This weakens the power to take action.
Why should law grants us any rights if they are really not needed to protect society. Why should we have the right to vote, or to be payed for our jobs. It even weakens society, powerful states ascended by not following these moral principles.
What about them? Freedom from slavery, and of speach, and to vote, aren't guarranteed by our laws, but by our Constitution.
You mentioned freedom of speach as something that is morally derived. As a matter of fact, though, freedom of speach constantly comes under attack--by people who think that laws should be based on morality. Ban immoral video games, movies, books, and music!
Nothing good comes from a bunch of self-rightous people getting together and deciding to enforce their rightous will on others.