No...It was too fast and effortless, like stomping ants.
Again, where are you getting "effortless" from? Definately not from her facial expressions. If one could even judge them.
Yoda's first push against Sidious was also "fast". Alot of Force techniques are done in the instant. It's not like in DBZ where they charge up power.
The point is, we've never seen her demonstrate anywhere near the amout of power it would take to kill 10 jedi council members at once. She may have that power stored up in her, but that remains to be seen. You can't look at something and say it's effortless, just because it was succesful.
Really? Kit rivalled Obi-Wan, fought Ventress (Jedi assasin like Sion) to a near-standstill, even though she won, and was one of the best duelists in the Order.
I have no reason to believe them to be any above average. Kit, on the other hand, along with pretty much every Council Member, was easily above average.
Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]No...It was too fast and effortless, like stomping ants.Again, where are you getting "effortless" from? Definately not from her facial expressions. If one could even judge them.
Yoda's first push against Sidious was also "fast". Alot of Force techniques are done in the instant. It's not like in DBZ where they charge up power.
The point is, we've never seen her demonstrate anywhere near the amout of power it would take to kill 10 jedi council members at once. She may have that power stored up in her, but that remains to be seen. You can't look at something and say it's effortless, just because it was succesful. [/B]
She raised her hand...they died....
Im afraid that is effortless, no struggle whatsoever.
Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]She raised her hand...they died....Yes.
Im afraid that is effortless, no struggle whatsoever.
This isn't proof she can replicate the feat on a larger scale. She may be able to do such, but that remains to be seen. [/B]
There isnt proof, but since she didnt struggle at all with three, its reasonable to assume she could take out a good deal more.
Ocelot, she didn't struggle as in the Jedi masters were NOT even able to get UP. If she can waste them that bad, she is basically untouchable against three STRONGER Jedi masters.
Do you agree with me that Vrook and Kavar are about equal to Yoda and Mace, and that Zez Kai El was above any other PT council member of the time?
Lets look at the context. After the war led by Ulic Qel Droma and Exar Kun, the Jedi KNEW how to deal with Sith. They were prepared, there force powers were very offensive and militant, and the masters probably had more knowledge in the darkside than the PT council. Not to mention facing two subsequent wars by Mandalorians, a Sith War by Darth Revan and Darth Malak (who literally had academies dedicated to rearing the strongest Dark Jedi available) , and assassination teams sent by Sion and Nihilus, these three masters thought they were prepared for anything.
Considering all this, Traya walked in the room, stood in the exact same position (Didn't even MOVE), and completely butchered them. They hardly had enough time to speak before they were instantPWNED. They couldn't even resist her wave. Vrook, who it seems was the strongest out of the three managed to stand up for a brief period of time, but was thrown away like a rock again.
Ocelot, she didn't struggle as in the Jedi masters were NOT even able to get UP. If she can waste them that bad, she is basically untouchable against three STRONGER Jedi masters.
Ah, but we do not know the nature of the technique, whether it's something that can be stressed. Compare the force choke to, say, Force Lightning. No one looks strained when force gripping someone, but Lightning is different. Dooku did not look strained when force gripping Obi-Wan, can he now force grib Anakin, Fisto, Mace, Depa, Yoda all at once? Doubt it.
Do you agree with me that Vrook and Kavar are about equal to Yoda and Mace, and that Zez Kai El was above any other PT council member of the time?
Vrook can be argued to be on Mace's level. Not sure about Kavar though, his role was strikingly similar to Fisto's on Geonosis. Zez, what has he done to be impressive?
Lets look at the context. After the war led by Ulic Qel Droma and Exar Kun, the Jedi KNEW how to deal with Sith. They were prepared, there force powers were very offensive and militant, and the masters probably had more knowledge in the darkside than the PT council. Not to mention facing two subsequent wars by Mandalorians, a Sith War by Darth Revan and Darth Malak (who literally had academies dedicated to rearing the strongest Dark Jedi available) , and assassination teams sent by Sion and Nihilus, these three masters thought they were prepared for anything.
Yep, but comparing the Jedi in KOTOR and the JEdi in TOTJ is difficult. The KOTOR Jedi are similar to the PT Jedi, they are not elite warriors but peace keepers who stress pacifism. But they are also militant and martial, and thus would have knowledge of the Sith they were facing. Vrook probably did have a greater knowledge of the dark side over Mace, but I doubt that for Yoda who's been studying the Force for 800 years.
Considering all this, Traya walked in the room, stood in the exact same position (Didn't even MOVE), and completely butchered them. They hardly had enough time to speak before they were instantPWNED. They couldn't even resist her wave. Vrook, who it seems was the strongest out of the three managed to stand up for a brief period of time, but was thrown away like a rock again.
It's hard to quantify all this if we don't know the nature of the technique. Who knows? Maybe this force drain was strengthened due to the Exile's presence? Maybe she truly has the power to instantpwn everyone? It's really hard to work with what we have. But if the instantkill is of the nature you're claiming, she does win this one fairly easy.
Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
[b]Ocelot, she didn't struggle as in the Jedi masters were NOT even able to get UP. If she can waste them that bad, she is basically untouchable against three STRONGER Jedi masters.Ah, but we do not know the nature of the technique, whether it's something that can be stressed. Compare the force choke to, say, Force Lightning. No one looks strained when force gripping someone, but Lightning is different. Dooku did not look strained when force gripping Obi-Wan, can he now force grib Anakin, Fisto, Mace, Depa, Yoda all at once? Doubt it.
Do you agree with me that Vrook and Kavar are about equal to Yoda and Mace, and that Zez Kai El was above any other PT council member of the time?
Vrook can be argued to be on Mace's level. Not sure about Kavar though, his role was strikingly similar to Fisto's on Geonosis. Zez, what has he done to be impressive?
Lets look at the context. After the war led by Ulic Qel Droma and Exar Kun, the Jedi KNEW how to deal with Sith. They were prepared, there force powers were very offensive and militant, and the masters probably had more knowledge in the darkside than the PT council. Not to mention facing two subsequent wars by Mandalorians, a Sith War by Darth Revan and Darth Malak (who literally had academies dedicated to rearing the strongest Dark Jedi available) , and assassination teams sent by Sion and Nihilus, these three masters thought they were prepared for anything.
Yep, but comparing the Jedi in KOTOR and the JEdi in TOTJ is difficult. The KOTOR Jedi are similar to the PT Jedi, they are not elite warriors but peace keepers who stress pacifism. But they are also militant and martial, and thus would have knowledge of the Sith they were facing. Vrook probably did have a greater knowledge of the dark side over Mace, but I doubt that for Yoda who's been studying the Force for 800 years.
Considering all this, Traya walked in the room, stood in the exact same position (Didn't even MOVE), and completely butchered them. They hardly had enough time to speak before they were instantPWNED. They couldn't even resist her wave. Vrook, who it seems was the strongest out of the three managed to stand up for a brief period of time, but was thrown away like a rock again.
It's hard to quantify all this if we don't know the nature of the technique. Who knows? Maybe this force drain was strengthened due to the Exile's presence? Maybe she truly has the power to instantpwn everyone? It's really hard to work with what we have. But if the instantkill is of the nature you're claiming, she does win this one fairly easy. [/B]
1. The difference is that force choke takes time to kill an enemy, and we never see it used against a respectable force user so its reasonable to assume it can be resisted.
2. I think this is reasonable, Vrook is around Mace...Kavar is weaker probably.
3. I agree with this.
4.
-We know 3 powerful masters were dropped with a wave of a hand...
-It is unreasonable to assume the technique can only be used when the Exile is around without any evidence or it even being suggested.
-So we have established that if Kreias technique is indeed as powerful as it seems to be than Kreia wins this battle?
Originally posted by Antediluvian
You mean just like Yoda and Mace sensed Sidious' plan to turn Anakin, destroy the Jedi with two hundred thousand of their own soldiers and then his plan to dominate the Galaxy?No, they wouldn't sense a single thing. Kreia would form her apperance into a Jedi like she did with the Exile (Who was apparently more powerful than Revan) and persuade them to stop the attack. Then she'd storm the entire room.
Mace would not get angry. That's where you seem to miss out.
She'll enter the temple with the intent to kill them, but she wouldn't be stupid enough to suddenly ignite her saber and say "Bring it!".
Please.
Plus Mace Windu wouldn't trust Traya. "It's very dangerous putting those 2 together. I don't think the boy can handle it. I don't trust him" Also in SWAT he says "How can I trust a guy who can't eat a good old fashion American Hot Dog." And in Freedom Land he doesn't trust the white police. Samuel L. Jackson doesn't trust anybody.
Anyway, I think that the council would just overwhelm Traya.