Originally posted by Disappear
GS, as much as i'd like to avoid argument, i find your reasoning to be somewhat hypocritical. you can't criticize the vagueness of the description, then imply definition to your liking.
I pointed out that the description was vague, i then went on to present my interpretation whilst giving reasons for said interpretation (i.e alternative bullepens and interviews). There is nothing wrong with doing that and that is far better practice than basing an argument solely on one vague bullpen as the creator of this thread and subsequent posters chose to do.
On top of that i stated that if anyone wished to hear further details pertaining to my interpretation then they need only PM me. In which case i would have sent them links to the appropriate sites which contain said interviews (something youre not allowed to do in threads)
Originally posted by Disappear
just as you match the written "phoenix" to be at her typical operating levels, so can the sentry's abilities be compared; expressed as opposed to possible.
Nonsensical.
Originally posted by Disappear
as written, his power could very well rival the phoenix in all aspects, many of which have yet to be seen. and, if the confrontation were to come about, or a display of power were to be seen that coincides with their statement, it would be completely within their stated limits to say so. the word of the marvel bullpen is hardly yours to define or limit. no offense intended.
There is no basis for assuming at this stage that the Phoenix they were referring to was a full powered Phoenix as opposed to a Phoenix at standard operating levels. Given Sentrys showings on panel, his bio entry, the previous bullpens and interviews which both referred to Phoenixes standard operating level and likened her to the Silver Surfer and given that in this bullpen the Phoenix is again placed on the same level as Silver Surfer and then the Sentry is in turn placed on par with this level, it stands to reason that my previous comments are very much the case.
Unless that is youre going to tell me that Silver Surfer has suddenly received an exponential increase in power and status? 😕
Originally posted by Disappear
also, saying "sentry's power may rival that of phoenix or silver surfer" is comparable to saying "colossus' organic steel body may rival adamantium or osmium." while it doesn't explicitly state that they are of the same level of toughness, hardness, whatever, it also does not imply that adamantium and titanium are meant to be judged as equals.
Not good enough Dis. Silver Surfer and Phoenix are placed on the same level, the same status in this bullpen. Sentry is then likened to them in terms of power. It doesnt say SS OR Phoenix in which case your analogy might hold true, it says AND Phoenix, they are equated to each other, placed on the same level power wise. Youre stretching.
Originally posted by Disappear
it's an analogy. "sentry's power" is to "may rival the phoenix or silver surfer" as "colossus' organic steel" is to "may rival adamantium or osmium/titanium." writing titanium was a mistake on my part, but the analogy works fine with both.
Incorrect. The bullpen said AND Phoenix. SS and Phoenix are equated. Unless SS has received a power boost then it seems my interpretation of the bullpen (one which was formed with previous interviews in mind) is indeed correct. Youre stretching with your analogy.
nonsensical, or simply sensical beyond your speculation? we've seen the sentry's powers for hardly a breath of time within the comic world. we do not know the scope of them. it is highly possible, and somewhat confirmed by this description, that his powers extend far beyond the realm we've been exposed to. so, while you'll contend that the "operating standard" for the phoenix is merely a fraction of a fraction of her/its true power, and you'd be right, you cannot factually contend that the same does not hold true for the sentry.
the blurb on his powers in no way set a limitation on the uppermost definition or summation of the sentry's powers. listing a comparison to some of the most notable overly-powered characters, whether using "or" or "and," is nothing more than a reference point for the less familiar reader. the grammar of it does not change, and does not definitively create a relationship between phoenix and silver surfer. it is merely establishing the level they wish to portray, without showing real merit for their description. arguing grammar is really a low point, particularly when it doesn't mean diddly.
while i fully agree sentry isn't shit next to the true power of the phoenix, i also see where marvel has left room for that to change. i have no veil over my eyes protecting one character from such speculation, nor do i particularly care for either as i've done shit to follow their careers thus far. i'm just chipping in to point out that your voice is not the sole voice of reason, nor does it give definition to the undefined. yours is fan interpretation, as is mine, and neither of us are establishing continuity by putting point to counterpoint on an internet forum.
Originally posted by Disappear
nonsensical, or simply sensical beyond your speculation? we've seen the sentry's powers for hardly a breath of time within the comic world. we do not know the scope of them. it is highly possible, and somewhat confirmed by this description, that his powers extend far beyond the realm we've been exposed to. so, while you'll contend that the "operating standard" for the phoenix is merely a fraction of a fraction of her/its true power, and you'd be right, you cannot factually contend that the same does not hold true for the sentry.the blurb on his powers in no way set a limitation on the uppermost definition or summation of the sentry's powers. listing a comparison to some of the most notable overly-powered characters, whether using "or" or "and," is nothing more than a reference point for the less familiar reader. the grammar of it does not change, and does not definitively create a relationship between phoenix and silver surfer. it is merely establishing the level they wish to portray, without showing real merit for their description. arguing grammar is really a low point, particularly when it doesn't mean diddly.
Sentry doesnt have an established powered down status, the bullpen doesnt state that Sentry is at least as powerful as the likes of Surfer, it says he possibly rivals the likes of Surfer and Phoenix, you are speculating. We can only go by what was stated and so far that is that Sentry has so not done anything conclusively on the level of said characters but what he has done suggests he could rival them.
Silver Surfer and Phoenix are paired together in the bullpen, they are equated to each other. That fits in perfectly with Chris Claremonts reasons for creating the character i.e "to be a female analogue for Silver Surfer", in interviews by CC and John Byrne (which i have links to) it is stated that Phoenix (Jean Grey) in general is Surfer level. In comics of the time she was portrayed as Surfer level during Earth operations. (For example in the Korvac What if it was Phoenix and Silver Surfer who were banished together because of their level of power) Unless Silver Surfer is suddenly a major cosmic force of Marvel then it would appear that this is the Phoenix the bullpen is referencing. That stands to reason. The grammar of the article in no way supports your weak analogy. It doesnt say Silvere Surfer or Phoenix (which makes a distinction between levels) it says and Phoenix. They are equated.
Originally posted by Disappear
while i fully agree sentry isn't shit next to the true power of the phoenix, i also see where marvel has left room for that to change. i have no veil over my eyes protecting one character from such speculation, nor do i particularly care for either as i've done shit to follow their careers thus far. i'm just chipping in to point out that your voice is not the sole voice of reason, nor does it give definition to the undefined. yours is fan interpretation, as is mine, and neither of us are establishing continuity by putting point to counterpoint on an internet forum.
At the end of the day, there is precedence for Marvel equating SS to Phoenix. It has been done in previous bullepens, interviews and in comics. With all in mind i have presented my well supported interpretation and told others why theres is far less likely to be the case given that theres is based on a sole article with no other sources to draw support from. I dont claim my voice to be the sole voice but if i see a poorly supported argument or point trying to be presented as fact , then i will sure as hell open my mouth and tell whoever spouts it exactly what i think of it, whilst drawing on a variety of sources to make me look good in the process as i am completely at liberty to do. 😱
It is undefined in your eyes but as far as im concerned, the precedence for a Silver Surfer/Phoenix level and the fact that its stated that he may possibly rival this level gives us a general benchmark. As previously stated herald level. 😉
If that is contradicted in subsequent appearances as per your speculation, then thats cool, but as it stands the aforementioned precedence, Sentrys appearances and bios all speak in favour of my interpretation. Not fact, but by all appearances alot more likely than not. 😄
So Thor is a figment of the imagination of a guy who's a figment of the imagination of a guy who's a figment of the imagination of a guy who's the figment of the imagination of a Marvel writer who's a figment of the imaginaion of Brian Michael Benid who in turn is a figment of the imagination of God who is in turn a figment of the imagination of the 1 Lord chuck Norris who are all figments of the imagination of me? Yeah?
the "a lot more likely than not" is all i was looking for. the potential is there, hidden in wordplay and other unknowns [because who is the sentry, really?] and it deserves at least a small amount of recognition.
i know and respect your way-too-involved wealth of phoenix-related knowledge, and we both know it's not in my realm to question that. i also understand the precedence as you've explained it, as well as how it was presented somewhat less definitively. but neither truly rules out the possibility, as precedences are not laws and comic history is nothing if not malleable. and, as neither you or i are in position to state fact from these scant few paragraphs, something we both admit, then the unlikely should rightfully be presented alongside the likely. implausible yet possible. since we appear to be on the same page, and i don't really give a nut about the sentry, this'll be the last i bring it up.