Originally posted by Revolver Ocelot
The proper list is:1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Return of the Jedi*a million years later*
4. Revenge of the Sith
5. Attack of the Clones
6. The Phantom Menace.I voted Dooku, BTW. Best PT character and one of the few redeeming qualities of the films.
Dooku was easily the best character in the PT. I dont agree on your order of movies but the comment about Dooku is 100% correct. You and I are some of the few people that know skill when we see it and Dooku definetly has skill. Well done on your choice.thumbsup
Vader rulz all!
how can anyone put any of the Prequels before the Empire Strikes Back, apart from Revenge Of The Sith ofcourse lol
mine in the Saga goes
1. Revenge Of The Sith (Rise Of Vader, Fall Of Anakin)
2. The Empire Strikes Back (I think it ses it in the Title 😛)
3. A New Hope (sweet and utter classic 😉)
4. Return Of The Jedi (Jabba The Hutt in the movie too long)
5. Attack Of The Clones (Boring Plot, Good Asteroid Chase n The Clone War Battle Was Ok, oh and i think ill go with Rampant_ox, Dooku was the best thing in Attack Of The Clones)
6. The Phantom Menace (features one of the best bad guys in history, ikkle Darth Maul 😄, but kinda sucks as a movie, The Podrace is good, but thats about it 😖)
oh well VADER RULZ ALL!!!
how can Anakin/Vader not be your favourite Character, Star Wars Saga is basically about him
1. ESB - almost everything is good, some stuff is awesome (Hoth, rebs getting their asses kicked, star destroyers, asteroid chase sequence, great music)
2.ROTS - did an excellent job as a saga bridge, essential for integrating the two trilogies together. As with AOTC...a little speedy with the plot.
3(tie).AOTC - (clones are my favorite characters, asteroid chase, Geonosis, Kaminoans get best original species. Should have been 3.5 hours for all the plot Lucas was trying to chew)
3(tie).ANH - a great movie and incredibly important historically the best acting of all 6 and no space sequence beat the cinematographic orgasm that is the Death Star Assault
5.TPM Maul was a great design success. Atistically (audio-vis) the movie was the best done of all 6. Could use some touch up (reduce sick Jar Jar humor, digitize that horrible puppet Yoda)
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6.ROTJ...horrible, just horrible. good job on the Sail barge assult sequence and the Anakin Vader fight though.
Overall, this is my list:
ESB
ANH
RotJ
RotS
AotC
TPM
First, in ESB, I loved that part in the carbon freezing chamber where Vader and Luke activate their sabers... That's just too damn cool. How it's the traditional Red vs Blue, the dark room, Vader's silhouette, everything.
In ANH, the part where Luke is looking up into the two suns, with the music, makes the scene so amazing.
In RotJ, the part where Luke throws down his saber and says "I'm a Jedi like my father before me." that's pretty cool.
In RotS, it shows the beginning of the Empire and Vader that we all love.
AotC... Meh, it was ok I guess... nothing much in particular...
TPM, nothing much at all.
^ Indeed.
Dooku was easily the best character in the PT. I dont agree on your order of movies but the comment about Dooku is 100% correct. You and I are some of the few people that know skill when we see it and Dooku definetly has skill. Well done on your choice.
Skill, class, great performance from Lee, cool lines, awesome saber skills and just plain badassery.
Anyways, here are a few reasons I found which sums up my opinion.
Why the OT >>> PT.
1) Lack of a strong villain. Unlike the OT, where Vader was the man to fear for the entire trilogy, the PT had no strong villain figure. Palpatine just sat in the background scheming and plotting never really doing anything evil until halfway through RotS. Every time we meet a strong villain character (Maul, Dooku, Grevious), they die very quickly and we never get to a point where they could be recognized and feared. If Lucas had let Maul escape after he killed Qui-Gon instead of being killed, then had him lead the seperatists in Episode II before finally being killed by Obi-Wan in Episode III, things would have been a lot better on that front.
2) Lack of a strong group dynamic. In the OT, Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, Lando, R2 and Threepio all knew and interacted with each other in various ways. TPM was able to capture this feeling with Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Anakin, Padme, R2 and Jar Jar, but it completely dissapeared after that. It became a "Chain" as opposed to a "net." Padme interacted only with Anakin (which made her seem somewhat like a 5th wheel), who interacted only with her and Obi-Wan, who interacted only with Anakin and Yoda/Mace. See? No group, there. It really hurt the feel and cohesion of the movie. Instead of watching seperate parts of one story that weaved through each other from time to time, it felt like we were watching several completely seperate stories that coalesced into one at the very end.
3) Lack of a strong lead actor and lead actress. Covered above.
4) Lack of beliavability. Anakin's fall to the dark side was WAAAY too rushed. It just felt like "OK, just killed my master in a spur of the moment event. Guess I'm evil now, so I'll go and slaughter everyone I ever knew and loved. I'll even kill the kids so I seem even more evil. Oh... maybe I should be a bit remorseful too, so I guess I'll go off and cry for a bit."
5) Lack of strong space battles. TPM's space battle wasn't bad, but it didn't capture the epic feeling of either of the Death Star Battles. RotS's space scene was ho-hum at best. The whole thing felt like it was on rails a la Starfox.
6) Narrow-view of the Star Wars universe. Again, aside from TPM, the entire series is focused almost entirely on the Jedi and their way of life. In the OT, we had a smuggler, a rebel leader, a Jedi and an business man. Each of these gave us a seperate view of the galaxy. In the PT, it really just felt like you were following an upper-class noble around and had no chance to get a feel for some of the "cooler" parts of the galaxy like the Mos Eisley cantina.
7) We knew the story already. This really couldn't be helped, but it did hurt the movies.
8) Lacked the epic feeling of the OT. In the Battle of Yavin, the fate of the Rebellion was in the hands of a handful of rebel pilots hurtling towards the seemingly-unstoppable might of the Death Star. At the Battle of Endor, the destiny of the entire Galaxy sat on a razors edge as the forces of good and evil clashed in a final battle of titanic proportions. There were no such instances in the PT. Just a sudden takeover by the Empire and a slaughter of the Jedi. Maybe if the Republic had at least put up a fight before it got taken over, things would have been better.
wot u said about the groups in the Original Trilogy is right, but if you look at the groups in the PT there not as interacting with each other, i think thats due to the fact that its about Anakin and how Anakin deals and interacts with the other characters, the PT really is all about him (oh ye more and more Anakin 😛) (Cant get enough of Anakin!)
Every thing about Star Wars could have been done far far better.
In response...
1. If the PT had had a supervillian, Vader's tru power in the saga would have been severely diminished. No one is a good as Vader. Thats the point.
2. The PT had a strong group dynamic between Anakin and Obiwan, except for in TPM. However, I agree that the the master apprentice relation ship was far less entertaining than the OT
3. See above.
4. I agree.
5. TPM's battle was small but very well done if Anakin's crap dialogue had been cut out. AOTC had the excellend Asteroid sequence. ROTS was a major let down. ANH, nuff said. ESB had another great asteroid chase. ROTJ could be a lot better especially if Lucas decided how many fighters he wanted to have (instead os switching every shot). I dont agree and I think the space battles are fairly balanced.
6. Strange times breed strange alliances. The Jedi are supposed to be portrayed as elitest. The OT shows how people overcome elitism to work together. I dont see anything wrong with that.
7. Yes, but we didn't know how..perfect example...clone army.
8. The PT was as epic as the OT. Epic is more than a winning a one sidded battle. Epic is about scale and I'd argue that the PT might be more epic than the OT beacause of its excessive graphic scale. I don't subscribe to the whole Rebels=good Empire=evil argument. Those are narrowminded words that never give an accurate representation of the facts. There is more abiguity if you actually take the time to look at the films objectively. What was not epic about the clone wars clips? The Republic was never supposed to put up a fight...the PT is about decay...maybe you find that less fascinating or too slow when compared to an assassination attempt (ROTJ), but they achieve the same ends. The repblic evolved into the Empire, the only thing that changed was the Jedi fell out of power (and rightfully so). The mechanism is entirely different and has different points.
The PT is not supposed to be a clone of the OT. The PT is different because it was filmed in a different period and has different messages. Both trilogies reflect upon eachother and enhance one another. Thats why its a SAGA.
1. If the PT had had a supervillian, Vader's tru power in the saga would have been severely diminished. No one is a good as Vader. Thats the point.
I wouldn't say that. The Saga was basically divided up into two separate trilogies... 20 years apart. There's nothing wrong with another strong presense. It detracted from the PT more than anything.
2. The PT had a strong group dynamic between Anakin and Obiwan, except for in TPM. However, I agree that the the master apprentice relation ship was far less entertaining than the OT
Yeah, but it's just those two. And they're two Jedi, bred in the exact same noble class with a similar view of the Galaxy. Their morals only conflicted with each other halfway through ROTS.
In the OT, we're given a hotshot cocky Smuggler, a lovable Wookie, a spunky Princess, a charming Hero, an old Wizard, and two droids. And they all mesh together wonderfully.
5. TPM's battle was small but very well done if Anakin's crap dialogue had been cut out. AOTC had the excellend Asteroid sequence. ROTS was a major let down. ANH, nuff said. ESB had another great asteroid chase. ROTJ could be a lot better especially if Lucas decided how many fighters he wanted to have (instead os switching every shot). I dont agree and I think the space battles are fairly balanced.
The AOTC asteroid chase was pretty cool, but it lacked the charm, the feeling of adventure that the ESB one had (Maybe it was the music?). It was still entertaining though. TPM had annoying Annie and his jack luck destroying the Trade Ship (which was utterly ridiculous) and ROTS was a huge letdown in this regard.
6. Strange times breed strange alliances. The Jedi are supposed to be portrayed as elitest. The OT shows how people overcome elitism to work together. I dont see anything wrong with that.
Incorrect. They aren't portrayed to be elitist at all. They simply did not interact with anyone below them in 'class'. Not because they were elitist, but because we're only shown them in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, or on Geonosis.
8. The PT was as epic as the OT. Epic is more than a winning a one sidded battle. Epic is about scale and I'd argue that the PT might be more epic than the OT beacause of its excessive graphic scale. I don't subscribe to the whole Rebels=good Empire=evil argument. Those are narrowminded words that never give an accurate representation of the facts. There is more abiguity if you actually take the time to look at the films objectively. What was not epic about the clone wars clips? The Republic was never supposed to put up a fight...the PT is about decay...maybe you find that less fascinating or too slow when compared to an assassination attempt (ROTJ), but they achieve the same ends. The repblic evolved into the Empire, the only thing that changed was the Jedi fell out of power (and rightfully so). The mechanism is entirely different and has different points.
I wouldn't say that at all. Scale is very important when considering "Epic"ness, but overuse of CGI does not make scale. Scale is made with variety, with feeling, with heart; something completly lacked in the PT.
And we haven't seen much in the Clone Wars in the films. Geonosis could have been very epic, but it was directed so horribly it lost most meaning. Well, maybe becayse most people fell asleep during the PadmexAnakin space opera garbage sequences.
And it's not fascination, it's meaning. The OT scenes were always relevant and related to conflicting themes featured in the films. In the PT, some scenes simply involved driving the plot. Other scenes were butchered and lost all meaning due to terrible screen-writing and direction. Take any AnakinxPadme scene in AotC... and compare it to Han and Leia's romance. Honestly, which is more convincing? I felt the characters in the OT. "I love you" and "I know" alone held far more meaning than any "You are beautiful like the sand" comments Anny made.
1.I wouldn't say that. The Saga was basically divided up into two separate trilogies... 20 years apart. There's nothing wrong with another strong presense. It detracted from the PT more than anything.
I disagree. No point in arguing further.
2.Yeah, but it's just those two. And they're two Jedi, bred in the exact same noble class with a similar view of the Galaxy. Their morals only conflicted with each other halfway through ROTS..In the OT, we're given a hotshot cocky Smuggler, a lovable Wookie, a spunky Princess, a charming Hero, an old Wizard, and two droids. And they all mesh together wonderfully..
I wouldn't refer to luke as charming....but in the PT you have the power-hungry student, the trying-to-live-up-to-a-reputition master, a woman losing touch with reality, a suspicious jedi master, a man with a political vision, and two droids. These words aren't a cutesy as "hotshot, hero, ovable, and spunky" but they describe real classes of people and are just as valid.
The AOTC asteroid chase was pretty cool, but it lacked the charm, the feeling of adventure that the ESB one had (Maybe it was the music?). It was still entertaining though. TPM had annoying Annie and his jack luck destroying the Trade Ship (which was utterly ridiculous) and ROTS was a huge letdown in this regard..
The music was not a good as the asteroid field, but thats perhaps the best song in Star Wars. It did however, have great AV effects with the SLave 1 and the sonic charges. I think describing the ESB chase with "adventureous" is over the edge....it was more like blatant panic.
TPM space battle was an amazing piece of work (i think second to trench run) but as I said, the horrible Anakin antics should have been removed. ROTS was great visually, but it was only a background to the scene, very little actual fighitng going on (the biggest let down of ROTS).
Incorrect. They aren't portrayed to be elitist at all. They simply did not interact with anyone below them in 'class'. Not because they were elitist, but because we're only shown them in the Jedi Temple on Coruscant, or on Geonosis.
I think they are shown to be elitist in their actions. They think that they are so in control that they have nothing to worry about, even when they know they are loosing the ability to use the force. They do nothing and thier inaction, dogmatic principles, and blantant blindness cost billions of lives.
8. I wouldn't say that at all. Scale is very important when considering "Epic"ness, but overuse of CGI does not make scale. Scale is made with variety, with feeling, with heart; something completly lacked in the PT.
And we haven't seen much in the Clone Wars in the films. Geonosis could have been very epic, but it was directed so horribly it lost most meaning. Well, maybe becayse most people fell asleep during the PadmexAnakin space opera garbage sequences.
And it's not fascination, it's meaning. The OT scenes were always relevant and related to conflicting themes featured in the films. In the PT, some scenes simply involved driving the plot. Other scenes were butchered and lost all meaning due to terrible screen-writing and direction. Take any AnakinxPadme scene in AotC... and compare it to Han and Leia's romance. Honestly, which is more convincing? I felt the characters in the OT. "I love you" and "I know" alone held far more meaning than any "You are beautiful like the sand" comments Anny made.
CGI certianly DOES NOT make an epic. when I said graphic, I meant artistically graphic. I would have loved to have had a whole movie of clone wars sequences, but unfortunately the Clone wars are a backdrop to the main action which is internal. The characters in the PT are much more dynamic because the galaxy is in a dynamic state, unlike the OT. The PT tackles a lot that the OT didn't as far as politics, morals, duty, etc.
SW is a space opera...however, it should not be a space soap opera[i].
It is incorrect to say that OT sences were always revelant a related to themes. If [i]that is true, then there is no difference in the PT. All six movies perhaps have some of the worst scripts known to man. Honestly, I didn't ever find Leia and Hans love satisfactorily convincing.
Epic is about scope of discussion and where the lens of the camera goes....and hitting on every message you can. Both trilogies do this well.