Originally posted by batdude123Ask Chael & he'll tell you himself. Fails don't get more epic than his steroid fueled near miss @finally becoming champion. Not even debateable. He's even talked about how he's been a 2nd placer so many times. He was damn near in tears.
If they fought again, it would probably go the same way. Chael taking Anderson down at will, with Anderson eventually submitting him.Guida will never get a title shot. And every upper tier fighter he's faced in the LHW division has beaten him. Talk about epic fails.
Oh, and...
Pettis was upper tier. He was gonna get a shot. Guida beat him.
Seriously, how many exciting fights has Chael been in besides the one where steroid man choked against a broken Silva?
Originally posted by I-Drop
Ask Chael & he'll tell you himself. Fails don't get more epic than his steroid fueled near miss @finally becoming champion. Not even debateable. He's even talked about how he's been a 2nd placer so many times. He was damn near in tears.Pettis was upper tier. He was gonna get a shot. Guida beat him.
Seriously, how many exciting fights has Chael been in besides the one where steroid man choked against a broken Silva?
Just let it go, bro. Chael Sonnen is >>>>>>> Guida as a fighter. It's a fact. He does what Guida does, but to a much higher degree. And he has much better striking.
Pettis was an unproven, albeit, exciting prospect that would have gotten his shit pushed in by either Maynard or Edgar. That's seriously your argument? Do you think Pettis is in anyway comparable to Anderson Silva? How about Kenny Florian...
You lose.
Originally posted by JayDaDon
Damn... missed it.
Nothing exciting about it at all. He should change his name to Alistair Overrated.
Losing to a broken Silva while on roids >> beating Pettis? You must really like Chael. Chael has much better striking? 😂 What fight did you see this in? This guy couldn't KO a smurf. Beat on Silva for 4.5 rounds & not only didn't KO, but I don't even remember Silva's face being marked up.(& he lost.) I've seen Guida actually do well in the stand up against Gomi. Chael on the other hand does nothing but takedowns ALL THE TIME. Where is his much better striking? I lose? Nah. Posting those laughing GIFs doesn't mean I lost same as posting one didn't stop Jones from beating Shogun's ass like he stole something.
Originally posted by batdude123Your time would be better spent answering my questions anyway. Don't dodge 'em. I even said "seriously". "Just let it go, bro"? You expect me to just give up? My name isn't Chael, broseph. I never tap out 😈
Too talented... for Shogun...
Originally posted by I-Drop&the other one is when has Chael displayed better striking than........anybody?
Seriously, how many exciting fights has Chael been in besides the one where steroid man choked against a broken Silva?
I can't believe I have to keep doing this shit in this thread...
Originally posted by I-Drop
Losing to a broken Silva while on roids >> beating Pettis? You must really like Chael. Chael has much better striking? 😂 What fight did you see this in? This guy couldn't KO a smurf. Beat on Silva for 4.5 rounds & not only didn't KO, but I don't even remember Silva's face being marked up.(& he lost.) I've seen Guida actually do well in the stand up against Gomi. Chael on the other hand does nothing but takedowns ALL THE TIME. Where is his much better striking? I lose? Nah. Posting those laughing GIFs doesn't mean I lost same as posting one didn't stop Jones from beating Shogun's ass like he stole something.
Leave it to a Silva fan to try and spin that fight in a way that makes it less embarrassing for him. 😂
Silva couldn't even stop the slow, telegraphed double leg takedowns of Travis Lutter, who has absolutely no wrestling credentials whatsoever, yet his tummy aching is supposed to exonerate him from being ragdolled for 23 minutes by Chael? I don't think so. His rib was bruised, son. Not even fractured. If it was something more serious, you'd actually have something resembling a point here. Stop trying to pretend like fighters don't fight hurt all the time, and that Silva's aching side (a "broken" Silva... crylaugh) is what made the fight go the way it did. Gtfo with that shit. This isn't little league here, these guys are professional fighters. You're going to sit there and tell me that if it wasn't for a little pain, Silva would have all of a sudden magically developed takedown defense good enough to stop the takedown attempts of a two-time National wrestling champ (something he's never shown at any point throughout his career)? You're priceless. 😂
"Do well in the stand up" against Gomi = landing a handful of strikes and then finishing the fight on the ground? Never mind the fact that Guida was dancing around like a f*cking moron for the entirety of the 1st round (which does not = good striking), a victory over Gomi hasn't been impressive for years now. What happened when Guida fought Kenny Florian and Diego Sanchez, hmm? They both made him look like he didn't even belong in the same octagon as them when it came to striking. And what did we learn from Diego's fights with BJ and Kampmann? That Sanchez has slightly above average striking (being generous) for a mixed martial artist. Kenny's not an elite striker either, yet dropped Clay like a sack of shit. Pettis also tooled him on the feet, which is why Guida kept going for takedowns. Guida's striking is bottom of the barrel, and to even try to pretend otherwise is hilarious.
Clay is a wrestler with terrible striking. Chael is a much, much, much better wrestler with decent striking. That's really the crux of the matter. Guida will continue to be gatekeeper status.
Nice deflection with the Shogun comment, as it has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.
Originally posted by I-Drop
Your time would be better spent answering my questions anyway. Don't dodge 'em. I even said "seriously". "Just let it go, bro"? You expect me to just give up? My name isn't Chael, broseph. I never tap out 😈
No, your name must be Clay, because you're losing to upper level competition. 🙂
I'm telling you to give up, because you have no case here. It's quite simple, really. Guida isn't as good of a fighter as Sonnen. Period. Clay would actually have to get a title shot for him to even compare. And thankfully, his caveman lookin ass never will. Beating Dan Miller, Yushin Okami, and Nate Marquardt in back-to-back-to-back fights, ALL in dominating fashion >>>>>>>> anything Guida has ever done in his career... or ever will do. Pettis is the biggest win of his career, even though he's largely untested. Everyone else who's been worth a damn in the division has beaten him. Get over it.
Originally posted by I-Drop
&the other one is when has Chael displayed better striking than........anybody?
How about when he beat Okami's ass, who just got done outstriking Nate Marquardt? The same Nate Marquardt that smoked guys like Wilson Gouveia and Martin Kampmann on the feet. And even though he consistently landed on Silva, nothing in that fight counted except the triangle, am I right? 😂 You're too much.
All those strikes added up to what exactly? A loss. & what damage did they do? Wasn't he somehow more marked up than Silva after it was over? That's not good striking. Healthy Silva woulda MURDERED him on his feet. Same way he did Belfort & Belfort is 1000x the striker Chael is & then some. Okami can outstrike Nate, but Sonnnen did little more than take Nate down & hold him there w/his nonvicious GNP same way he did to Silva &everybody else. He did NOT want it on the feet. &I seem to remember him going all wrestle-fest against Okami anyway. It's why Okami started working w/Chael afterward...........on his wrestling. NOT his striking. You think if you asked one of those people you listed what gave them the most trouble that they'd say "his striking"? 😐 This isn't rocket science. Your answer to that question should have just been "Never". Would have saved some time.
Kenny's striking is waaaay up since he went all Thai Boxing a while back. His striking>>>>>>Chael's AND he can finish fights. & say what you want about Diego but his striking>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chael's. If Guida's striking is bottom of the barrel, &I admit it's not great, then Chael's is indeed found somewhere under the barrel. He's a better wrestler than Clay because that's ALL he is. He's got shitty sub defense too. He's got very few finishes for a guy with such dominating victories. Must punch like a tranquilized girl(& this is WITH STEROIDS). It's like he's playing pattycake. A decision king if I ever saw one.
&you never answered the "exciting fights w/out Silva" question. But if the quality is as low as it was on this "answer", 4get it. No need to waste both our time again. You honestly think anybody woulda got hyped for his fight w/Silva had he not talked all that shit? He is NOT an exciting fighter.
Originally posted by I-Drop
All those strikes added up to what exactly? A loss. & what damage did they do? Wasn't he somehow more marked up than Silva after it was over? That's not good striking. Healthy Silva woulda MURDERED him on his feet. Same way he did Belfort & Belfort is 1000x the striker Chael is & then some. Okami can outstrike Nate, but Sonnnen did little more than take Nate down & hold him there w/his nonvicious GNP same way he did to Silva &everybody else. He did NOT want it on the feet. &I seem to remember him going all wrestle-fest against Okami anyway. It's why Okami started working w/Chael afterward...........on his wrestling. NOT his striking. You think if you asked one of those people you listed what gave them the most trouble that they'd say "his striking"? 😐 This isn't rocket science. Your answer to that question should have just been "Never". Would have saved some time.
So because Chael's face was more marked up than Silva's, he was winning the fight up to the triangle? Is that the point you were trying to make? Like, maybe, it's supposed to diffuse the fact that Anderson was getting mauled, or something? You're getting beyond ridiculous at this point.
Lol @ using the Belfort fight as an example. You're acting like that's the norm for all of his fights. It was a 1 in a 1000 kick that just happened to land perfectly. You think it would end the same way if they fought again? Fighters get caught with hail-marries. It happens. But if you're trying say that's how the fight with Sonnen would have gone if it wasn't for his tummy aching, that's retarded. I hope you know that.
Apparently you've never watched the Okami fight. He was absolutely out-striking him, along with out-wrestling him. Pretty sure he landed a spinning back kick and a flying knee on him, too.
The answer isn't never, because that's not the case.
Originally posted by I-Drop
Kenny's striking is waaaay up since he went all Thai Boxing a while back. His striking>>>>>>Chael's AND he can finish fights. & say what you want about Diego but his striking>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Chael's. If Guida's striking is bottom of the barrel, &I admit it's not great, then Chael's is indeed found somewhere under the barrel. He's a better wrestler than Clay because that's ALL he is. He's got shitty sub defense too. He's got very few finishes for a guy with such dominating victories. Must punch like a tranquilized girl(& this is WITH STEROIDS). It's like he's playing pattycake. A decision king if I ever saw one.
When has Chael ever been out-struck to the point of pathetic hilarity? Never? Well it happens to Guida all the time. He's possibly the worst striker in the lightweight division, and that's not even a stretch for me to say. Oh wait, I forgot that putting your head down, squaring up, putting your back against the cage, throwing rock-'em-sock-'em style punches with your hair blocking your view, and landing absolutely nothing makes you a much more technical striker than Sonnen. crylaugh
You're a f*cking joke, son.
Originally posted by I-Drop
&you never answered the "exciting fights w/out Silva" question. But if the quality is as low as it was on this "answer", 4get it. No need to waste both our time again. You honestly think anybody woulda got hyped for his fight w/Silva had he not talked all that shit? He is NOT an exciting fighter.
The fight with Okami was exciting. The fight with Anderson was exciting. And it was because of Chael. All of Guida's exciting fights were because of the people he was fighting, not because of him. His fight with Diego was exciting because Diego was literally beating his face in for the entire first round. What happened in rounds 1 and 2? He took Diego down, and didn't do shit. Chael is a constant workhorse that never stops his offense when the fight hits the mat. If Guida had his way in all of his fights, he'd take his opponent down, lay in his guard, and simply neutralize any offense from the bottom. That's exactly what happened in the Mac Danzig fight, and that's exactly what happened in the fight with Pettis.
I'd much rather watch Chael fight next than Guida. Not even close. And again...
Originally posted by batdude123
Also, finishing fights, at least in terms of entertainment value, gets overrated by the masses. You have to look at the methods employed by the fighter who finishes. I don't care if Clay Guida finishes his next 5 fights, I would still rather watch Forrest Griffin fight, who's a decision king.
Also, Chael is still the #2 middleweight in the world. With the win over Pettis, Guida may have eked his way into the bottom of the top 10 lightweights. Chael has beaten much better competition. Guida will never get a title shot. So how exactly is this even debatable that Sonnen is a better fighter again?
You can respond if you want to, as futile as it may be. But I'll end it here, because you're trying to argue something that isn't even arguable. Sonnen is a much better fighter than Guida.
It was weird when they were standing up & he kept letting Werdum fire off 1st. I just want the winner of this thing to get a UFC title shot. I think Sergei has a very good chance of winning. One of the best strikers ever.
Originally posted by batdude123I may need to watch the Okami fight again. I remember nothing more than the usual Sonnen takedowns w/nonvicious GNP. If Guida had his way he would FINISH all his fights. He's got way more finishes than Chael. Now if Chael had his way he'd do exactly what you say Guida does. Only he's not as good at neutralizing the offense because he's nowhere near as good with his sub defense. &I'm not saying Silva was winning(if you think that's what I'm saying you need to wear a helmet when you go outdoors), I'm just saying Chael's striking isn't even half as good as Anderson's & the fact that that fight makes you think Chael's nondangerous striking is "decent" is a testament to just how "off" Anderson was that night. Anderson IS a striker & what he did to Belfort isn't the only example of him whooping somebody's ass w/his waaaaaaaay above average standup. Don't act stupid. It's what he does, when he's healthy(when he's not he can rely on his top notch jujitsu 🙂 ) & I seriously think he'd have done much worse to Chael. Chael's striking is weak in every sense. Technically weak & lacking of sufficient force to actually hurt people &finish fights. His GNP is a joke. Hit Silva a million times &did VERY little damage. You saying his striking is decent is an insult to people who do have decent striking. I remember asking what fights BESIDES the Silva fight were exciting &you still felt the need to list the Silva fight. That tells a lot. You gave me 1 other fight &even tho my memory can be shitty @times I really think if the Okami fight was exciting I'd remember an exciting part of it. Guida's weird stand up confused the hell out of Gomi & he got some pretty good shots in. When Guida gets his ass kicked &the stand up it's because he spends more time @least trying to stand up than Chael does. &Pettis wasn't untested, he was a WEC champ.....unlike choke-artist Chael. 🙂
So because Chael's face was more marked up than Silva's, he was winning the fight up to the triangle? Is that the point you were trying to make? Like, maybe, it's supposed to diffuse the fact that Anderson was getting mauled, or something? You're getting beyond ridiculous at this point.Lol @ using the Belfort fight as an example. You're acting like that's the norm for all of his fights. It was a 1 in a 1000 kick that just happened to land perfectly. You think it would end the same way if they fought again? Fighters get caught with hail-marries. It happens. But if you're trying say that's how the fight with Sonnen would have gone if it wasn't for his tummy aching, that's retarded. I hope you know that.
Apparently you've never watched the Okami fight. He was absolutely out-striking him, along with out-wrestling him. Pretty sure he landed a spinning back kick and a flying knee on him, too.
The answer isn't never, because that's not the case.
When has Chael ever been out-struck to the point of pathetic hilarity? Never? Well it happens to Guida all the time. He's possibly the worst striker in the lightweight division, and that's not even a stretch for me to say. Oh wait, I forgot that putting your head down, squaring up, putting your back against the cage, throwing rock-'em-sock-'em style punches with your hair blocking your view, and landing absolutely nothing makes you a much more technical striker than Sonnen. crylaugh
You're a f*cking joke, son.
The fight with Okami was exciting. The fight with Anderson was exciting. And it was because of Chael. All of Guida's exciting fights were because of the people he was fighting, not because of him. His fight with Diego was exciting because Diego was literally beating his face in for the entire first round. What happened in rounds 1 and 2? He took Diego down, and didn't do shit. Chael is a constant workhorse that never stops his offense when the fight hits the mat. If Guida had his way in all of his fights, he'd take his opponent down, lay in his guard, and simply neutralize any offense from the bottom. That's exactly what happened in the Mac Danzig fight, and that's exactly what happened in the fight with Pettis.
I'd much rather watch Chael fight next than Guida. Not even close. And again...
Also, Chael is still the #2 middleweight in the world. With the win over Pettis, Guida may have eked his way into the bottom of the top 10 lightweights. Chael has beaten much better competition. Guida will never get a title shot. So how exactly is this even debatable that Sonnen is a better fighter again?
You can respond if you want to, as futile as it may be. But I'll end it here, because you're trying to argue something that isn't even arguable. Sonnen is a much better fighter than Guida.
Originally posted by I-Drop
I may need to watch the Okami fight again. I remember nothing more than the usual Sonnen takedowns w/nonvicious GNP. If Guida had his way he would FINISH all his fights. He's got way more finishes than Chael. Now if Chael had his way he'd do exactly what you say Guida does. Only he's not as good at neutralizing the offense because he's nowhere near as good with his sub defense. &I'm not saying Silva was winning(if you think that's what I'm saying you need to wear a helmet when you go outdoors), I'm just saying Chael's striking isn't even half as good as Anderson's & the fact that that fight makes you think Chael's nondangerous striking is "decent" is a testament to just how "off" Anderson was that night. Anderson IS a striker & what he did to Belfort isn't the only example of him whooping somebody's ass w/his waaaaaaaay above average standup. Don't act stupid. It's what he does, when he's healthy(when he's not he can rely on his top notch jujitsu 🙂 ) & I seriously think he'd have done much worse to Chael. Chael's striking is weak in every sense. Technically weak & lacking of sufficient force to actually hurt people &finish fights. His GNP is a joke. Hit Silva a million times &did VERY little damage. You saying his striking is decent is an insult to people who do have decent striking. I remember asking what fights BESIDES the Silva fight were exciting &you still felt the need to list the Silva fight. That tells a lot. You gave me 1 other fight &even tho my memory can be shitty @times I really think if the Okami fight was exciting I'd remember an exciting part of it. Guida's weird stand up confused the hell out of Gomi & he got some pretty good shots in. When Guida gets his ass kicked &the stand up it's because he spends more time @least trying to stand up than Chael does. &Pettis wasn't untested, he was a WEC champ.....unlike choke-artist Chael. 🙂
All I hear is wah, wah wah, and excuse after excuse after excuse of why Anderson got treated in such a way that's probably unthinkable to you. Get his dick out yo butthole, mang. Can't accept the reality of the situation. 😂
Chael doesn't have KO power? Oh shit, I forgot we were talking about a stand up knockout artist in Clay Guida. crylaugh This is one of the most hypocritical things I've ever read.
Chael will stay a higher ranked fighter, and he'll keep beating better competition than Guida ever has. Guy isn't even in the upper tier of his weight division. Holla at me when Guida gets a title shot, and if he does, how well he performs against someone like Frankie Edgar. 🙂
Sonnen>>>Guida.
The whole dick & butt stuff is a bit much, bra. No need 4that. I don't need to make excuses. Silva WON. The reality of the situation is that even w/steroids ya boy couldn't beat a man w/bruised ribs despite landing the most strikes ever. He lost. All the rest is noise. He can't finish so he GOT finished.
Guida can sub people so he ain't gotta be knocking them out. Guida's not using the "vitamins" Cheal does anyway or @least he hasn't been caught. Let Guida land as many strikes as Chael steroids did on Silva & the ref'll have to stop the fight.