doc is a . . . strange (heheh) character. he does indeed have loads of great showings, but at other times he has seemed emmanently beatable. he's beaten some big names, but been shown to be decisively below many of them as well -- mephisto and satannish are just a couple who have been shown to be far beyond him at times. hell, enchantress and the executioner beat the crap out of him.
i like strange, but he often acts the part of plot device. he would likley win these via bfr if nothing else. it's not one of those fights that's a real good match, and it's hard to see supes winning. his best bet would be to use speed and pound away at strange's shields. the doc HAS been shown to have limited stamina in many cases, and if supes could last long enough to tire doc out, he could get him. that's his only shot, realistically. i doubt even t-vo would work.
Originally posted by leonidasWhy couldn't Supes do like he did to the magic user of The Elite in issue 775, when he just breathed and collapsed his lungs?
doc is a . . . strange (heheh) character. he does indeed have loads of great showings, but at other times he has seemed emmanently beatable. he's beaten some big names, but been shown to be decisively below many of them as well -- mephisto and satannish are just a couple who have been shown to be far beyond him at times. hell, enchantress and the executioner beat the crap out of him.i like strange, but he often acts the part of plot device. he would likley win these via bfr if nothing else. it's not one of those fights that's a real good match, and it's hard to see supes winning. his best bet would be to use speed and pound away at strange's shields. the doc HAS been shown to have limited stamina in many cases, and if supes could last long enough to tire doc out, he could get him. that's his only shot, realistically. i doubt even t-vo would work.
Originally posted by leonidas
...i like strange, but he often acts the part of plot device...
That's why I hate magic. It's too off-the-cuff for me.
And what does "BFR" mean?
Juntai> That's what I'm saying. Supes has fought magical foes, no? And he's come out victorious. That's why I don't give Strange a clean sweep.
And has Strange fought Thor? Who won?
Has Strange fought Surfer? Who won?
(I'm figuring he fought a weakened Galactus, though not to minimize even that feat).
Originally posted by Juntai
Why couldn't Supes do like he did to the magic user of The Elite in issue 775, when he just breathed and collapsed his lungs?
thing with strange is that his shields can be said to stop pretty well anything. part of the . . . ugliness of this fight stems from the fact that if supes DOES get to touch him or interact physically with strange, for the briefest instant, he would utterly kill strange. but i'm just wondering if supes COULD get a hand on him. there is evidence to both support AND refute the 'auto-shield' theory for strange. no auto-shield, a blitz is viable. if shields are up, supes COULD still weaken them by battering them at high speeds (as hulk did once) and tire doc out to get a win -- IF he can avoid strange. but strange's spells often act over an AREA, as opposed to needing to strike an opponent, so avoiding strange might be tough. i also think that to compare supes v dc magic users isn't a great comparison in this PARTICULAR case, only because he would have had to face and defeat dr fate to have claimed a win over someone as proficient at magic as strange is -- and i'm not sure supes has ever faced down fate, let alone defeated him. fighting magical beings (asmodel, blaze, etc . . .) is a little different than fighting someone like strange, imo.
but don't misunderstand -- i'm not saying supes loses because of his supposed weakness -- i'm saying strange can beat MOST in the same way he'd beat supes.
oh, and mindship -- bfr is battlefield removal.
oops -- and he's never really fought thor to the best of my knowledge, though i believe he removed (briefly) the enchantment on his hammer. he also fiddled for a breif time with haindering the odinpower, i think. strange himself (on 2 separate occasions) has acknowledged the surfer as superior to himself in power, but i don't belive they have officially tangled. perhaps he meant in terms of 'personal' power, but surely strange as the ability to accumulate power (via prep) that would push him well past ss.
and in one instance it was a VERY weakened galactus that he caused to flee -- the other time (when he knowcked g down) was 'average g', but the spell did ZERO damage, just knocked the big guy over for a moment.
According to Long Pig, Strange's shields are always up, except for when the plot demands them to be down.
And I would have to say Strange wins, but not because of the 'magic weakness' thing. Strange is just uber. In fact, I would place him in the 'Can beat just about anybody' category right up there with Flash.
Originally posted by leonidas
thing with strange is that his shields can be said to stop pretty well anything. part of the . . . ugliness of this fight stems from the fact that if supes DOES get to touch him or interact physically with strange, for the briefest instant, he would utterly kill strange. but i'm just wondering if supes COULD get a hand on him. there is evidence to both support AND refute the 'auto-shield' theory for strange. no auto-shield, a blitz is viable. if shields are up, supes COULD still weaken them by battering them at high speeds (as hulk did once) and tire doc out to get a win -- IF he can avoid strange. but strange's spells often act over an AREA, as opposed to needing to strike an opponent, so avoiding strange might be tough. i also think that to compare supes v dc magic users isn't a great comparison in this PARTICULAR case, only because he would have had to face and defeat dr fate to have claimed a win over someone as proficient at magic as strange is -- and i'm not sure supes has ever faced down fate, let alone defeated him. fighting magical beings (asmodel, blaze, etc . . .) is a little different than fighting someone like strange, imo.but don't misunderstand -- i'm not saying supes loses because of his supposed weakness -- i'm saying strange can beat MOST in the same way he'd beat supes.
oh, and mindship -- bfr is battlefield removal.
oops -- and he's never really fought thor to the best of my knowledge, though i believe he removed (briefly) the enchantment on his hammer. he also fiddled for a breif time with haindering the odinpower, i think. strange himself (on 2 separate occasions) has acknowledged the surfer as superior to himself in power, but i don't belive they have officially tangled. perhaps he meant in terms of 'personal' power, but surely strange as the ability to accumulate power (via prep) that would push him well past ss.
and in one instance it was a VERY weakened galactus that he caused to flee -- the other time (when he knowcked g down) was 'average g', but the spell did ZERO damage, just knocked the big guy over for a moment.
Well said, Blaze did try to transmute Superman through magic, in a dimension where she is practically invincible. Supes shrugged it off through willpower. When he wasn't ready, CM knocked out Supes with magic filled punches, however, when possessed, SHAZAM himself firing magical lighting didn't finish off the very same body. When against Thor, the hammer hit him pretty hard when he wasn't aware, when he was aware...he caught it...same thing with Viking and his enchanted AX.
Supes got good a good chance. Much better than most give him.
Originally posted by leonidas
oh, and mindship -- bfr is battlefield removal.
Thanks.
oops -- and he's never really fought thor to the best of my knowledge, though i believe he removed (briefly) the enchantment on his hammer. he also fiddled for a breif time with haindering the odinpower, i think. strange himself (on 2 separate occasions) has acknowledged the surfer as superior to himself in power, but i don't belive they have officially tangled. perhaps he meant in terms of 'personal' power, but surely strange as the ability to accumulate power (via prep) that would push him well past ss.
Strange 😛 that these guys haven't fought.
Supes got good a good chance. Much better than most give him.
That's what I've been saying.
Originally posted by leonidas
i'd certainly agree with that -- especially the last part. 😉
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Supes has got a good chance. Much better than most give him.
Ooops, that's what I meant.. 🙂
I forgot to mention, Dominus power is both magical and cosmic. Before he bacame what he is currently, he was an extremely capable sorcerer...and we saw what some Torquasm Vo did in THAT situation.
Originally posted by UniOmni
I hate T-Vo with an unholy passion. From the depths of my bitter, tainted soul. It's worse than superman knowing Martial arts. Goes against the concept of Superman.
You know what would be hilarious? If Superman beats SBP prime using T-Vo. Even precrisis characters would shake their fists at him for it...it's one power even THEY didn't have...
😆
It just seems to be so blatantly slanted in his favor......Thats what turns me off so much about it. Plus, Superman being a reality manipulator makes it that much harder to buy his defeats. Not quite psychic, but not magic either?? But somehow trumps both?? All based on willpower right?? Bet the GLs wished the Guardians had taught them this powerful ability. The cheapness of it is ghastly, and the plothole it creates is even worse. Straight outta a Precrisis SilverAge comic.
Originally posted by UniOmni
It just seems to be so blatantly slanted in his favor......Thats what turns me off so much about it. Plus, Superman being a reality manipulator makes it that much harder to buy his defeats. Not quite psychic, but not magic either?? But somehow trumps both?? All based on willpower right?? Bet the GLs wished the Guardians had taught them this powerful ability. The cheapness of it is ghastly, and the plothole it creates is even worse. Straight outta a Precrisis SilverAge comic.
That's kinda how I feel about magic.
I hate magic.
This is so not a spite thread like some are claiming. Dr. Strange has been knocked out or had his ass handed to him by beings lower than Supes before (although I know that of course anytime Strange has ever been hit it must be PIS or CIS as theres no other explination for it 🙄 ).
This fight is a lot closer than many of the initial replies insist.
I don't mind magic being a dues ex machina. Its magic. Something that can't be explained or understood. Breaks all the rules and creates problems. Hence the definition of the word magic. The unknown. Actually, i hate the fact that Cap and BA can't fire powerful magic blasts from their eyes or hands or something. Not enough magic.
Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
You know what would be hilarious? If Superman beats SBP prime using T-Vo. Even precrisis characters would shake their fists at him for it...it's one power even THEY didn't have...
😆
They had the Batkick though. Truth be known, Superman has beaten magical foes before, but there's magical, then there's so crazy with magic it's not even funny. Dr. Strange is so crazy with magic it's not even funny. I'd give Strange 8/10.