most powerful villlians

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Like I've told you before, I haven't read X-Men comics since Colossus died, so they've evidently done more with the Phoenix Force. To be honest, I think it stinks. It goes from the entity that guards the Mkraan crystal to something that is the catalyst of all creation? The last I had read about the Phoenix Force was that it's the nexus of all Psionic Energy in the universe, and didn't have anything to do with creation.

The Phoenix Force has been linked to creation and the Big Bang since its conception. It was often called the alpha and omega, the embodiment of the creation cycle when Chris Claremont introduced the character, plus in Excalibur in the early 90's it was shown that it was the Big Bang that created the marvel universe. With all that in mind i cant see how you couldve missed all of this, its not a newly introduced concept.

The problem is that Phoenix is a protected character. It is rarely allowed to be featured outside of X-men comics or to be touched by anyone in Marvel other than by X-men writers. Therefore when people see these big cosmic sagas popping up all over the place and see no mention of Phoenix then they wrongly assume its not that important in the cosmic scheme of things. Its all down to politics at Marvel. Theres two camps x-men writers/editors and everyone else.

Hmm, so let me try to get the order of things. (btw, I never read Excalibur)

Phoenix makes the Big Bang
Galan survives it, becomes Galactus
Galactus goes around eating planets til it's time for a new universe to form.
Phoenix triggers the next one.
Galactus' herald at the time becomes the next Galactus, and it all goes happily ever after.

Sounds to me like it fits well with the cosmic side of things if you take the time to think about how it would work.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Hmm, so let me try to get the order of things. (btw, I never read Excalibur)

Phoenix makes the Big Bang
Galan survives it, becomes Galactus
Galactus goes around eating planets til it's time for a new universe to form.
Phoenix triggers the next one.
Galactus' herald at the time becomes the next Galactus, and it all goes happily ever after.

Sounds to me like it fits well with the cosmic side of things if you take the time to think about how it would work.

Phoenix less makes the Big Bang and more manifests as it. Each creation cycle Phoenix is reborn into creation as the Big Bang and at the end (in the natural scheme of things) is absorbed back into the white hot room via the M'kraan crystal.

As for the Galactus bit, i take it you've read or been told of "The Last Galactus Story"? Well that isnt canon so Galactus' role in 616 is unknown.

All we've been told is the Phoenix embodies life (it manifests as the Big Bang) and the creation cycle. It is the trigger that sparks off reality, the fuel that keeps it going and the fire that ends it. One of the things the Phoenix fuels is evolution. Every creation cycle a race evolves which transcends the physical and becomes one with creation, they are to be the new abstracts of the next universe.

In X-men Forever Stranger sought to use Phoenix to control evolution and therefore all reality and the abstracts, hence that scene you saw. As aforementioned Phoenix is a protected character and as such its status in the cosmic scheme of things has been inconsistent. Sometimes its written as the be all and end all of creation and sometimes as just an after effect of it.

Actually, I'm going with "The Origin of Galactus." It was printed in 96. It's canonical in 616. Galactus has also claimed to be the be all and end all of the universe, which has lead me to believe that he's essential to the creative cycle, and the stability of the 616 universe. There's a lot of things that do need to be cleared up about the Purple Planet Eater, but it bugs me that people say he can't back up what he claims when you've got all of Asgard, the Watchers, and many others who say that his power is so vast that it's ridiculous. I have a feeling that there is a way to fit the Phoenix Force and Galactus into the whole span of the Big Bang of 616.

Originally posted by Thunderstrike
Actually, I'm going with "The Origin of Galactus." It was printed in 96. It's canonical in 616. Galactus has also claimed to be the be all and end all of the universe, which has lead me to believe that he's essential to the creative cycle, and the stability of the 616 universe. There's a lot of things that do need to be cleared up about the Purple Planet Eater, but it bugs me that people say he can't back up what he claims when you've got all of Asgard, the Watchers, and many others who say that his power is so vast that it's ridiculous. I have a feeling that there is a way to fit the Phoenix Force and Galactus into the whole span of the Big Bang of 616.

I have the Origin of Galactus and nowhere does it refer to Galactus' herald becoming the new Galactus in the new universe. That contradicts whats been established by X-men Forever about an evolved humanity going on to become the fundamental forces.

Also what you need to remember is that the Origin of Galactus may have been canon back in 96 but since then its elements have been retconned by subsequent comic releases making its events not entirely canonical. For example Phoenix has now been introduced into his origin as you'll find out by reading Galactus' latest bio.

Galactus may have once claimed to be the be all and end all of the universe and whilst at the time he said that it may have been true, but since then we know conclusively that that is NOT the case as we have seen him trumped by a variety of powers and his status has taken a nose dive over the last 20 years. While he is still an essential of the universe, he is far from top tier power wise. Remember retcons happen all the time so character comments can be rendered irrelevant.