Mr. Mxyzptlk vs. the Living Tribunal

Well there is not much pics from the LT around, so even to start a topic with him in it is kind of pointless, I mean marvel stats he's in top 5 most powerfull character in the marvel univers.

And you want proof people can't give you, because there aren't enough pics or comics where he is in, where he shows his true power.

I mean iff that is the case even Hulk or someone els could beat the LT just because there issn't enough proof around to show what he can do.

So I say it's pointless but reading the bio, without PIS.

LT should win

Originally posted by LordKaos
LT operates on a multiversal scale, all dimensions exist within the multiverse. Just because he has been approached by third dimensional beings does not make him so, the dimension the imps live may be 5th dimensional, but it is still part of the multiverse. In all existence there is only one LT. And his purpose is not to help in creation, but to maintain balance as judge jury and executioner to things of a metaphysical nature that threaten the grand design as a whole.

True indeed. ✅

While im no LT fan and i do not believe he is omnipotent or the most powerful force in Marvel, it is true that as a multiversal being he has jurisdiction over all dimensions in Marvel. DC since the first Crisis tends to see things in terms of the universal so people here hear how Mxy comes from the 5th dimension and see how he can mess around with people from DCs main universe and assume he'd be able to come and do that to beings in Marvel. Not so. ❌

The multiverse of Marvel encompasses all marvel dimensions (just like if DC talked in terms of the multiversal then Mxys dimension would be accounted for) and LT is the appointed judge and jury of it.

Just look how Spectre was able to render Mxy powerless. Why? Because Spectre is a force that has jurisdiction over all of DC creation as per the wishes of Yahweh and DC creation encompasses Mxys 5th dimension.

Originally posted by illadelph12
If you actually read that comic and had common sense you'd know that:

1)Tribunal didn't attack Korvac directly.
2)Korvac never stood up to LTs power, he protected himself (allegedly) from a supernova caused by LT.
3)Shaper of Worlds and the Abstract Death were also on the scene, so there is no way of definitively saying Korvac was the power that shielded Earth from the supernova.
4)Korvac had the power of 6 cosmics at the time.
5)It was a What If?, so even though there is only one LT, the story must be looked at in the proper context. I read a What If? where Galactus crashed to Earth and became Elvis. What Ifs? don't mean a damn thing to someone with common sense.

LT wins.

1) and 2) True, but at the same time he referred to it as his ultimate punishment and given that it is the largest output of power we have seen from LT it is inferred that he is limited in the amount of power he can employ in a combat situation, he is after all charged with protecting Marvels multiverse and we know from the claims of beings like Eternity that hes more powerful than them.

3)LT made reference to it being Korvacs power that withstood his attack. Giving LTs omniscience id be inclined to believe him. In support of it being Korvac the next scene states: "The still green earth spins serenely through the heavens about a white dwarf star. On its surface Korvac exults" " The immortal energies of six of the cosmos' most highly evolved entities surge beneath my breast, I am the mightiest being in the universe"

So not only did LT reference Korvacs power as being the one that deflected his attack but the next scene shifted to the planet being left intact and Korvac gloating about how powerful he was. Its quite clear it was Korvac.

4) Irrelevant. Thats like saying Iron Mans only as good as he is because of his armour. 😕 Korvacs ability is to absorb virtually unlimited energy from outside sources, thats how he gets so powerful, its so i fail to see the point of highlighting that.

5) While it i strue that some What Ifs are really silly, some of them however are completely feasible and LT has no showings to tell us that this one should be dismissed as one of the absurd ones. What LT does have is a tendancy to employ other forces to take care of a threat as opposed to dealing with anything himself and when he is the last resort he'd rather talk his way out of a confrontation for fear of destroying the reality he is appointed to protect. All in all it suggests that while we know for a fact that LT is extremely powerful, he is very much limited in the amount of power he can employ without compromising his mission.

On top of that Lt causing the star to go supernova in the What If is referenced in many of his bios as one of the measures LT is prepared to carry out in his work.

Dont get me wrong, i dont believe for one instant that Mxy would win, but i am saying that that What If is completely relevant as a reference to LT in combat. Not only is it referenced in bios but its in line with his actions in other confrontations, (his numerous ones with Dr Strange, Marvel The End, Infinity Watch and Quasar) which all hint at a limit to how much power he can employ.

I give LT the win as i see no reason why he cant just seal Mxy away in an impenetrable force field

From what we've seen, Mxy is likely next most powerful after Spectre though, and he is a multi-dimensional level character. We never do really see him TRYING to fight people though, and he also seems bound by rules but mostly they are his own rules.

Originally posted by Juntai
From what we've seen, Mxy is likely next most powerful after Spectre though, and he is a multi-dimensional level character. We never do really see him TRYING to fight people though, and he also seems bound by rules but mostly they are his own rules.

Being multiversal isnt simply about being able to hop between dimensions and apply your power, its more about consciousness, being one with the multiverse as a whole and being able to apply your power simultaneously across multiple realities.

Mxy may be very powerful, he may be able to bring a universe to his kness, but what im saying is that people look at how Mxy can come from the 5th dimension and mess with the DC universe and assume he could do that with Marvels cosmic beings. What they forget is that DC tends to be in terms of the universal therefore Mxy doing that sounds more impressive than it actually is. If we were to look at Dc's multiverse as a whole then Mxy and his 5th dimension would be encompassed in that. Spectre is greater than Mxy because he is a true multiversal being with power over all of DCs multiverse, LT is a being with jurisdiction over all of Marvels multiverse.

Mxy isnt on that level. Referencing what 5th dimensional Mxy does to the main Dc universe as reason for why he can stand up to LT is a useless exercise, when Marvel deals with the multiversal as standard and LT is a multiversal being, one likened to Spectre in Marvel and we have already seen that Mxy falls under Spectres influence.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Being multiversal isnt simply about being able to hop between dimensions and apply your power, its more about consciousness, being one with the multiverse as a whole and being able to apply your power simultaneously across multiple realities.

Mxy may be very powerful, he may be able to bring a universe to his kness, but what im saying is that people look at how Mxy can come from the 5th dimension and mess with the DC universe and assume he could do that with Marvels cosmic beings. What they forget is that DC tends to be in terms of the universal therefore Mxy doing that sounds more impressive than it actually is. If we were to look at Dc's multiverse as a whole then Mxy and his 5th dimension would be encompassed in that. Spectre is greater than Mxy because he is a true multiversal being with power over all of DCs multiverse, LT is a being with jurisdiction over all of Marvels multiverse.

Mxy isnt on that level. Referencing what 5th dimensional Mxy does to the main Dc universe as reason for why he can stand up to LT is a useless exercise, when Marvel deals with the multiversal as standard and LT is a multiversal being, one likened to Spectre in Marvel and we have already seen that Mxy falls under Spectres influence.

Originally posted by Juntai
I agree, and I never said he would stand up to LT, I was saying he's multiversal in power, he could bring most any dimension to it's knees. I don't think there's been any other character[besides Spectre] in DC that has been shown as higher than Mxy. He's even been shown discussing plot with the writers of the comics. He knows what page events will happen on. "I've come to talk to Superman, but he's busy right now, so I'll just talk to you[the reader] until he shows up on page 6." stuff like that. And then we've really seen no limit to his power, until we saw Spectre destroying magic messing with him... we'll know more later on that for sure though. He did dissapear before he bit it..

Multiversal in power? How so? Has he simultaneously applied his power over all realities of Dc's multiverse? Simply applying your power into another dimension is not multiversal, being able to defeat the powers of a universe does not make you multiversal, far from it.

Impressive as his showings have been i cant recall of any instance which shows that Mxy operates at anything other than a universal level.

Talking to comic book writers and having knowledge of the plot in the comic is something many heroes have done so thats really not a good thing to reference to be honest. She Hulk and Deadpool most certainly are NOT multiversal lol.

Mxy can traverse dimensions and coming from a higher dimension than the main DC universe means he can completely lord it over all those from said universe, however he hasnt displayed anything remotely multiversal and when dealing with a being who has jurisdiction over a multiverse then Mxy for all his power comes up short.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
1) and 2) True, but at the same time he referred to it as his ultimate punishment and given that it is the largest output of power we have seen from LT it is inferred that he is limited in the amount of power he can employ in a combat situation, he is after all charged with protecting Marvels multiverse and we know from the claims of beings like Eternity that hes more powerful than them.

3)LT made reference to it being Korvacs power that withstood his attack. Giving LTs omniscience id be inclined to believe him. In support of it being Korvac the next scene states: "The still green earth spins serenely through the heavens about a white dwarf star. On its surface Korvac exults" " The immortal energies of six of the cosmos' most highly evolved entities surge beneath my breast, I am the mightiest being in the universe"

So not only did LT reference Korvacs power as being the one that deflected his attack but the next scene shifted to the planet being left intact and Korvac gloating about how powerful he was. Its quite clear it was Korvac.

4) Irrelevant. Thats like saying Iron Mans only as good as he is because of his armour. 😕 Korvacs ability is to absorb virtually unlimited energy from outside sources, thats how he gets so powerful, its so i fail to see the point of highlighting that.

5) While it i strue that some What Ifs are really silly, some of them however are completely feasible and LT has no showings to tell us that this one should be dismissed as one of the absurd ones. What LT does have is a tendancy to employ other forces to take care of a threat as opposed to dealing with anything himself and when he is the last resort he'd rather talk his way out of a confrontation for fear of destroying the reality he is appointed to protect. All in all it suggests that while we know for a fact that LT is extremely powerful, he is very much limited in the amount of power he can employ without compromising his mission.

On top of that Lt causing the star to go supernova in the What If is referenced in many of his bios as one of the measures LT is prepared to carry out in his work.

Dont get me wrong, i dont believe for one instant that Mxy would win, but i am saying that that What If is completely relevant as a reference to LT in combat. Not only is it referenced in bios but its in line with his actions in other confrontations, (his numerous ones with Dr Strange, Marvel The End, Infinity Watch and Quasar) which all hint at a limit to how much power he can employ.

I give LT the win as i see no reason why he cant just seal Mxy away in an impenetrable force field

GS, how is it irrellevent that a being with the power of 6 cosmics was able to protect himself from a supernova? Another couple panels after Korvac gloats Death comes forth and says that it's plans are coming to fruition (not in those exact words, but we've both read the comic). How the Earth was protected is not clearly depicted. Besides Korvac there's a cube being and an Abstract on the scene.

That comic was stupid. 👇

LT could have simply sealed Korvac in a skin tight force field and imprisoned him for eternity if he wished, but it wasn't written that way. It was written to make Korvac a viable threat. It was a What If? and Korvac was the star attraction.

And that's my whole point.

What If? comics by their very premise are overly subjective.

It's just a writer with freedom to explore any imaginary scenario, no matter how assinine or inconceivable it is, without taking canon materials from current continuity into account, and print their fantasies as a comic. And due to the fact that by the established premise of the LT's character, and that there is only 1 Living Tribunal in the entire Marvel Multiverse, all of these stories happen on his watch, regardless of the events making sense.

I don't put much solice in What Ifs?.

It could be said that the only being more powerful than LT is the writer if you want to consider What Ifs? as canon for him, and that would open up a very ugly can of worms.

Oh, and Stark is only as good as the armor he's in.

Originally posted by illadelph12
GS, how is it irrellevent that a being with the power of 6 cosmics was able to protect himself from a supernova? Another couple panels after Korvac gloats Death comes forth and says that it's plans are coming to fruition (not in those exact words, but we've both read the comic). How the Earth was protected is not clearly depicted. Besides Korvac there's a cube being and an Abstract on the scene.

Its irrelevant because the act of causing a supernova as an offence was stated by LT to be his "ultimate punishment", thats the crux of the matter. Noones trying to say Korvac was as powerful as or more powerful than LT so highlighting his assembled power and saying of course he would be able to stand up to a supernova is very much a pointless exercise, because that stands to reason. The point is that LT in all confrontations has never displayed an output of power greater than that supernova. That measure is also referenced in his bios as an example of what he would resort to in confrontation regardless of your dismissive stance towards the What If. By all indications LT is limited by his role in what he can do in a combat situation, that is the point im trying to make. That notion is supported by just what his "ultimate punishment" entails and the fact that he has always employed other forces to battle universal threats or he has talked his way out of potentially catastrophic confrontations citing the destruction of a reality that could result from him fighting is an undesirable outcome.

Originally posted by illadelph12
That comic was stupid. 👇

And yet despite your opinion, the measure is referenced in his bios. 😉

Originally posted by illadelph12
LT could have simply sealed Korvac in a skin tight force field and imprisoned him for eternity if he wished, but it wasn't [b]written that way. It was written to make Korvac a viable threat. It was a What If? and Korvac was the star attraction. [/B]

Are you forgetting that LT did actually seal off that reality from the rest of the multiverse after the failure of his "ultimate punishment"? Regardless you seem to be missing the point. Noones saying that Korvac was more powerful than LT and im certainly not doubting LTs power. What im trying to say is that LT is limited in what power he can employ in battle due to his role. Lt stated that measure was his ultimate punishment, its referenced in his bios and he has no showing on panel to dispute it being that. As far as we've been shown while we know that LT is more powerful than the likes of Eternity and the point is stated in his bios, his role limits what he can do.

Originally posted by illadelph12
And that's my whole point.

What If? comics by their very premise are overly subjective.

It's just a writer with freedom to explore any imaginary scenario, no matter how assinine or inconceivable it is, without taking canon materials from current continuity into account, and print their fantasies as a comic. And due to the fact that by the established premise of the LT's character, and that there is only 1 Living Tribunal in the entire Marvel Multiverse, all of these stories happen on his watch, regardless of the events making sense.

I don't put much solice in What Ifs?.

While thats true with alot of What Ifs you cannot group them all together and treat them as irrelevant, especially not when the one in question is referenced in bios and there is no showing of LTs to dispute this particular What If and therefore support your opinion on it.

Originally posted by illadelph12
It could be said that the only being more powerful than LT is the writer if you want to consider What Ifs? as canon for him, and that would open up a very ugly can of worms.

Nope. Thats just your opinion and its unsupported on panel.

Originally posted by illadelph12
Oh, and Stark is only as good as the armor he's in.

And at the same time hes a hero because of the armour, its inherent to the Iron Man character. Its like saying Storms only good because she has mutant powers, take them away and shes rubbish. 😕

You must be looking for a debate... 😆

I stand by what I said above.

I agree with the point you made about LT's options being limited in combat. He acts as judge, jury, and executioner, as well as protector at the same time. Why he would destroy an entire solar system via a supernova rather than wiping Korvac from existence or renduring his powers nullified like he did the Infinity Gauntlet is beyond me, and evident of my point of the premise of What Ifs? leaving common sense and continuity to the way side in lieu of an imaginary, many times ill conceived, plot. (Galact-a-Elvis...)

I could care less if causing a supernova is sighted in his bio and stated as his "Ultimate Judgement" on panel, it's still given to interpretation. It could have meant his final judgement was Korvac's death via supernova, but for inexplicable reasons a near omnipotent being coudn't deduce that a being with the powers of 6 cosmics could survive an exploding sun.

Go figure.

Tribunal has a hand full of appearances at best as is. I believe it's below 20 if memory serves. He's spoken of far more than he actually appears.

As for the Storm/Stark comparison, without her powers Storm's a highly capable hand to hand combatant and beat Calisto in armed combat.

Tony without the armor is a drunken Bill Gates.

um no my proof is upstairs in my closet where LT ran like a chicken from a guy with the power of six cosmics, an entire planets population, and a few celestials, no my proof aint in my head its upstairs, LT has no alternate versions pally wally, if he comes out in a comic then it was him if you say its not then you go against your own thoughts on the LT and say he isnt the only version but i know better and so do others, he lost to korvac, and when he was against the IG he thought he might not even be able to win, and that whole judgement things he could have just taken them and made them not work but that doesnt mean he did it under his own power because even adam warlock did the same thing with the mind gem not allowing it to be used at its full potential, your arguments are moot and you cant back up squat like always you just insult and use your fancy words to try to make other people in here listen to you even though you dont know what your talking about half the time, then you call me a liar when youve said stuff like ganthet would beat king thor then you go later on and say ganthet is overrated and call me a liar when i check you up on that if no one believes me go to ganthet vs king thor what thunderdyke said is right there, then go to classic lobo and see the level of fanboyism he has reached when he said what thanos could do lol he said thanos could servive a galaxy level blast with out being hurt, that he could smash a cube with the density of the universe, beat up on a group of gods, beat up gods perioud, even nigh omnipatents, beat the armies of heaven and hell, lol the list goes on and on then he comes back later saying he was just being sarcastic really if you where being sarcastic why did you post that stuff like 3 times. your the tool your the biggest tool in here sadly the tools you represent cannot be shown on here cause id get banned for showing "those" tools.

Originally posted by illadelph12
You must be looking for a debate... 😆

😄

Originally posted by illadelph12
I stand by what I said above.

I agree with the point you made about LT's options being limited in combat. He acts as judge, jury, and executioner, as well as protector at the same time. Why he would destroy an entire solar system via a supernova rather than wiping Korvac from existence or renduring his powers nullified like he did the Infinity Gauntlet is beyond me, and evident of my point of the premise of What Ifs? leaving common sense and continuity to the way side in lieu of an imaginary, many times ill conceived, plot. (Galact-a-Elvis...)

Who is to say he could just wipe Korvac from existence? No evidence for that, not an option. LT never just nullified the IG. He cancelled out a blast from the IG. A blast that was far from full power given the close proximity of Adam and the effects it had on the abstracts and Galactus before LT dispersed it. Shunting away a power blast from the IG is something Strange can and has achieved. With all that in mind and LTs few confrontations in Stranges title it is far from nonsense that his supernova attack would be employed to deal with Korvac. Its how LT works, he cares about the reality as a whole not an individual planet or solar system. LT has previously sought to simply wipe out an alternate Earth because it was infested with demons, but as Phoenix showed there was a more compassionate solution, Phoenix instead cleansed the planet of the infestation doing away with the need for LT in the situation. Why? Cos thats the way Phoenix works. LT's pledged to protect realities as a whole thats the way he works.

LT said after he'd attacked Korvac that he'd underestimated his power before proceeding to seal him off from the rest of the multiverse when that didnt work. Thats all you need to know. That fits in perfectly with continuity, it is far from nonsense. When LT confronted the StarBrand he first employed the champions of the universe to deal with the situation and when that didnt work he later sealed off the New Universes Earth from the 616 dimension.

Originally posted by illadelph12
I could care less if causing a supernova is sighted in his bio and stated as his "Ultimate Judgement" on panel, it's still given to interpretation. It could have meant his final judgement was Korvac's death via supernova, but for inexplicable reasons a near omnipotent being coudn't deduce that a being with the powers of 6 cosmics could survive an exploding sun.

Go figure.

Tribunal has a hand full of appearances at best as is. I believe it's below 20 if memory serves. He's spoken of far more than he actually appears.

As aforementioned LT made a mistake. He was arrogant and he underestimated Korvac, that is stated on panel. Thats why he initially used that measure before finally sealing off that reality. LT has been shown to fight on several occassions in Stranges title against beings he should be able to brush aside given his status so i guess the fact that he didnt immediately renders that CIS/PIS? ❌

Given that, such performance in confrontations is all we have seen from LT we cant claim it to be so and you certainly have no grounds to dismiss that What If. None whatsoever.

As far as we have seen on panel and as supported in his bio LT will resort to destroying a solar system to take out a threat. He states that measure to be his ultimate punishment and as we have seen no greater output employed by him in battle you cant assume otherwise. Is LT capable of greater output? Most certainly. However he is restricted by his role.

Originally posted by illadelph12
As for the Storm/Stark comparison, without her powers Storm's a highly capable hand to hand combatant and beat Calisto in armed combat.

Tony without the armor is a drunken Bill Gates.

The same applies for any mutant Ill dont be fallacious now. 😉

The armour is inherent to his character its what makes him a hero, without it he wouldnt even be considered in these debates so thats a redundant argument. Saying oh Korvac could only do this and that because of all the power he absorbed is absurd. That is his power to do that.

Originally posted by Mider
um no my proof is upstairs in my closet where LT ran like a chicken from a guy with the power of six cosmics, an entire planets population, and a few celestials, no my proof aint in my head its upstairs, LT has no alternate versions pally wally, if he comes out in a comic then it was him if you say its not then you go against your own thoughts on the LT and say he isnt the only version but i know better and so do others, he lost to korvac, and when he was against the IG he thought he might not even be able to win, and that whole judgement things he could have just taken them and made them not work but that doesnt mean he did it under his own power because even adam warlock did the same thing with the mind gem not allowing it to be used at its full potential, your arguments are moot and you cant back up squat like always you just insult and use your fancy words to try to make other people in here listen to you even though you dont know what your talking about half the time, then you call me a liar when youve said stuff like ganthet would beat king thor then you go later on and say ganthet is overrated and call me a liar when i check you up on that if no one believes me go to ganthet vs king thor what thunderdyke said is right there, then go to classic lobo and see the level of fanboyism he has reached when he said what thanos could do lol he said thanos could servive a galaxy level blast with out being hurt, that he could smash a cube with the density of the universe, beat up on a group of gods, beat up gods perioud, even nigh omnipatents, beat the armies of heaven and hell, lol the list goes on and on then he comes back later saying he was just being sarcastic really if you where being sarcastic why did you post that stuff like 3 times. your the tool your the biggest tool in here sadly the tools you represent cannot be shown on here cause id get banned for showing "those" tools.

mider use some damn periods stop being lazy, is this even english ^^^. And nobody paying attention to you at all.

Originally posted by Mider
if you knew anything youd know that what if's do count if the LT is present there is only one LT over the entire multiverse when he makes an apperence it has to be him or youd say that there are alternate versions and second off if you call running away makes him more powerful your the one who needs to study up.

What If?'s are not canon.

Originally posted by Jabba the Hutt
What If?'s are not canon.

A lil extract from a website:

In the context of fiction, the canon of a fictional universe comprises those novels, stories, films, etc. that are considered to be genuine (or "official"😉, and those events, characters, settings, etc. that are considered to have inarguable existence within the fictional universe.

So what is inherent and established for a character, object or event in 616 is not canon for the Ultimate Universe or the New Universe for example and vice versa. However when you have a character that has no counterparts in any other reality and who as stated is the same being in all the What Ifs as the one we see in 616 appearances then whats canon really doesnt apply as the rules and doctrine of one particular universe do not exclusively apply to him.

So What Ifs arent canon when we're talking about things inherent to 616, however when talking about LT they very much can be taken into consideration. Mider is right in that respect.

Not to go off topic here, but does anyone have scans of this 'fight'?

Galactic'I have lots of scans of comics' Storm, I'm looking in your direction 😄

Originally posted by Maestro
Not to go off topic here, but does anyone have scans of this 'fight'?

Galactic'I have lots of scans of comics' Storm, I'm looking in your direction 😄

Why, certainly lil lady, you just giv GS 5 mins to get his stuff together. 😄

Here ya go:

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12103412167.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12103420117.jpg&s=x402

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=5/12103425168.jpg&s=x402

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Why, certainly lil lady, you just giv GS 5 mins to get his stuff together. 😄

Heh, appreciate that GS, but I think replacing the word 'lil lady' with 'master' would be more appropriate 😛

Originally posted by Maestro
Heh, appreciate that GS, but I think replacing the word 'lil lady' with 'master' would be more appropriate 😛

Keep those twisted fantasies to yourself. Kids browse these forums. 🙁 😉