Originally posted by Koenig
As we know most of the German army was in Russia and in June 1943 they were involved in the Battle of Kursk. In Normandy the defences, were in the very early stages of being built, this would had made the situation easier for the Allies to invade.
Two million Germans went into Operation Barbarossa. The combined might of the German military was closer to 10-12 million total at this point. That's hardly "most".
In Wehrmacht Service*, 1943: 11,280,000+
Source: http://www.feldgrau.com/stats.html
Aside from the three million Germans, the attacking force also included 250,000 Italian, 300,000 Romanian and several hundred thousand troops from other allied Axis nations. Arrayed against them were 4.5 million Red Army troops, including 2.3 million in the western border regions at the time of the invasion.
Source: Reference.com
So looks like you're right. Odd. Those figures are higher than that in my text book and notes.
Still, that's not even a fourth of the German forces. And they drummed up a few million more recruits in the next year or so.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
In Wehrmacht Service*, 1943: 11,280,000+Source: http://www.feldgrau.com/stats.html
Aside from the three million Germans, the attacking force also included 250,000 Italian, 300,000 Romanian and several hundred thousand troops from other allied Axis nations. Arrayed against them were 4.5 million Red Army troops, including 2.3 million in the western border regions at the time of the invasion.
Source: Reference.com
So looks like you're right. Odd. Those figures are higher than that in my text book and notes.
Still, that's not even a fourth of the German forces. And they drummed up a few million more recruits in the next year or so.
Hey you got me panicking for a moment.
Originally posted by Janus Marius
They would likely have gotten pushed out, and then Soviet Russia would have dominated Europe without an opposing Allied presence.
I still rather hold to this. If the Allies hadn't taken Italy, they would have had to focus the bulk of their forces at the beachhead. Since the Germans wouldn't be having a bulk o their army in the Alps, they could redirect forces to stop a shore invasion. Perhaps even get some armor on the beach. However, assuming that the allies did indeed even land, they would have been hindered more than they were in real history, and the Soviets would have swallowed up Germany at least.
I found some interesting info on this, what do you folks think of it?
Operation Sledgehammer
During World War II, Operation Sledgehammer was an Allied contingency plan for a limited-objective cross-channel invasion of Europe in response to a German or Soviet collapse in 1942. It was to be used to reduce pressure on the Russians.
The main objective of the operation was to capture Cherbourg or Brest in northern France in order to establish a defensible foothold in mainland Europe, which would provide a staging area for a larger invasion force.
The United States argued for the operation, but the United Kingdom was against it. The Allies eventually agreed that they did not have enough landing craft at the time and abandoned the plan in favor of Operation Gymnast (later renamed Operation Torch), the invasion of Northern Africa. The costly raid on Dieppe later demonstrated the difficulty of capturing a major port in the face of determined enemy opposition, and the D-Day invasion of Normandy avoided ports altogether.Operation Roundup
Military history records two operations called 'Operation Roundup:
1. The first was a 1942 plan for an invasion of northern France in the spring of 1943.
This plan, drawn up by then-Brigadier General Eisenhower reflected American enthusiasm for an early entry into Europe. Given the shortage of landing craft and other resources, this plan was unrealistic. Briefings concerning this plan brought Eisenhower’s organizational and diplomatic skills to the attention of senior civil and military leaders in the United States and Europe, launching his meteoric rise to Supreme Allied Commander, Europe. Although it was never executed, parts of it were incorporated into Operation Overlord. Operation Roundup included Operation Sledgehammer and the later variant Operation Roundhammer.