Originally posted by jrodslamYep. Match starts - on the first second there is two Madroxes. Then there is 4 Madroxes. Then 8, then 16, then 32, then 64, then 128...I mean, in about seven seconds he would have over a hundred if he wished so.
Its very easy to get the dupes confused with the original Jamie. Secondly, the dupes can create dupes of themselves, so that makes it even harder to take out Madrox.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Since Kahn explained the forum rules to me, I think: less than 1 second.
Originally posted by jrodslam
Its very easy to get the dupes confused with the original Jamie. Secondly, the dupes can create dupes of themselves, so that makes it even harder to take out Madrox.
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Yep. Match starts - on the first second there is two Madroxes. Then there is 4 Madroxes. Then 8, then 16, then 32, then 64, then 128...I mean, in about seven seconds he would have over a hundred if he wished so.
I think that is what people don't realize. Jamie can generate dupes at an exponential rate. And I can't see why people are assuming that he will only create 10 or 20 for this fight. I guess it's Batman's jobber aura causing his opponent to somehow limit themselves to enable Batman to win.
As to the gas attack winning the fight, what exactly is keeping Jamie from simply holding his breath and continuing to create dupes (and they continuing to create dupes) during this time? Again all he has to do is either run away from Batman at the start for the few seconds it would take him to create a literal army of dupes or even in the gas cloud his dupes will very quickly extend beyond the cloud.
And here are some scans of Jamie creating dupes (thanks to Black Adam)
Originally posted by DarkCrawler
But...The guy who can memorize the book still has to read the book. And the scientist has to learn the answer from somewhere. Batman doesn't have telepathy. Someone has still had to teach him those martial arts. And it takes years to teach someone to be a true master of an martial art, EVEN if you only taught one move one time.
I don't exactly get what you're saying. You say "takes years to teach someone" as if it were fact for a person who has an IQ higher than all of us combined. I thought we already went over this during the PMs. Somehow you can have suspense of disbelief when reading a half-naked sea king flying in the air who can lift 10 to 20 tons with no formal explanation but when it comes to an eidetic genius who could have possibly learned 127 martial arts(I'm sure other geniuses have done crazier things), then its impossible.
[QUOTE=6507638]Originally posted by TheKahn
I think that is what people don't realize. Jamie can generate dupes at an exponential rate. And I can't see why people are assuming that he will only create 10 or 20 for this fight. I guess it's Batman's jobber aura causing his opponent to somehow limit themselves to enable Batman to win.
I said it was UNLIKELY that Jamie would duplicate 50 or 100 dupes given he knows a little bit about Batman. He'd probably underestimate him like he did with Wolverine and duplicate in low numbers. And if he DID generate 100 Jamies in advance, well, then I'd wonder why you wouldn't consider that as prep time.
As to the gas attack winning the fight, what exactly is keeping Jamie from simply holding his breath and continuing to create dupes (and they continuing to create dupes) during this time?
Because you can't just "hold your breath." Gas can seep through noses and eyes, percolating through different openings of the body. Worse if it's sleeping gas, you'll immediately be knocked out.
Again all he has to do is either run away from Batman at the start for the few seconds it would take him to create a literal army of dupes
Unlikely that he would get away so easy since you claim he has enough seconds to get away.
Again all he has to do is either run away from Batman at the start for the few seconds it would take him to create a literal army of dupes or even in the gas cloud his dupes will very quickly extend beyond the cloud.
What are you talking about. None of those panels showed that Madrox can duplicate a gigantic army in less than 5 seconds. And even then, those panels don't even show you the time frame it takes to duplicate. There could've been 5 to 10 seconds between each panel. All those scans were pointless, like I already predicted you would do. Also, you assume that Jamie is fast enough to get away, Batman draws batarangs faster then people draw guns. Not to mention, if Bats flashbangs him while he's about to run away, he'd probably slip and smack himself right into a wall or trip and duplicate into a giant pile of Jamies. Then Batman can just throw gas from the top and its game over.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
And this last one is funny because I didn't know Madrox could be outsmarted so easily.
how is that being outsmarted?
the guy already has a gun shoved in his face so he goes with his natural reaction to create wall of dupes? and he wasn't in the best of shape of the time. a big piece of wood had just fallen on him and he had just reabsorbed a shot dupe. All the smoke he had inhaled didn't help matters either.
Originally posted by Black Adam
how is that being outsmarted?the guy already has a gun shoved in his face so he goes with his natural reaction to create wall of dupes? and he wasn't in the best of shape of the time. a big piece of wood had just fallen on him and he had just reabsorbed a shot dupe. All the smoke he had inhaled didn't help matters either.
lol he pwned himself and collapsed himself through the sheer weight; he'd coulda killed all of himself right there- there was no way he would know how far the drop would be. Just proves that he can be outsmarted.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
And if he falls and duplicates like this, then he's uber screwed because batarangs can take out entire columns or rows of enemies. One batarang would just mow them all down.
and upon contact with said batarang those dupes would have created even more dupes.
Like I told kahn in a PM the only chance for bats is to spam the area with gas.
Originally posted by Black Adam
and upon contact with said batarang those dupes would have created even more dupes.Like I told kahn in a PM the only chance for bats is to spam the area with gas.
Really? Can you show me something from the comics where Jamie duplicated right after being sliced with sharp objects? That would pretty much refute it, but the current scans posted wouldn't. Rolling down a forrest isn't the same as having your heads ripped by razor-sharp batarangs.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
I said it was UNLIKELY that Jamie would duplicate 50 or 100 dupes given he knows a little bit about Batman. He'd probably underestimate him like he did with Wolverine and duplicate in low numbers. And if he DID generate 100 Jamies in advance, well, then I'd wonder why you wouldn't consider that as prep time.
And how exactly do you know (or get to decide) what is "likely" for Jamie to do??? Sounds like that damnable jobber aura of Batman where his opponents must either underutilized their abilities and/or underestimate him so he can win. 🙄
The argument was that given the rate at which Jamie can create dupes then he could (as extrapolated from his powerset and past feats) generate hundreds of dupes in a matter of moments. I don't recall anyone saying he needed prep time.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Because you can't just "hold your breath." Gas can seep through noses and eyes, percolating through different openings of the body. Worse if it's sleeping gas, you'll immediately be knocked out.
Well then it should be no problem for you to post a scan of Batman knocking someone out instantly with the gas he normally carries while that person is holding his or her breathe.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Unlikely that he would get away so easy since you claim he has enough seconds to get away.
Remember it's just not just Jamie that is running away (or even charging Batman) but also his dupes that get generated with every step he takes or every time he snaps his fingers (and the dupes they create with every step they take and so on, and so on, ect) all running in different directions. As Darkcrawler stated (as this is exponential multiplication): with each step or each snap the numbers increase as 1, 2, 4, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, and so on. So it would literally take only seconds for Batman to be facing hundreds of opponents.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
What are you talking about. None of those panels showed that Madrox can duplicate a gigantic army in less than 5 seconds. And even then, those panels don't even show you the time frame it takes to duplicate. There could've been 5 to 10 seconds between each panel. All those scans were pointless, like I already predicted you would do. Also, you assume that Jamie is fast enough to get away, Batman draws batarangs faster then people draw guns. Not to mention, if Bats flashbangs him while he's about to run away, he'd probably slip and smack himself right into a wall or trip and duplicate into a giant pile of Jamies. Then Batman can just throw gas from the top and its game over.
Wow! Man, that really proves just how open minded and objective you are. I mean by dismissing scans before they are even posted you have shown that there is absolutely no way you could be a Batman fanboy. Where did you learn this amazing debating tactic? I would have never thought of ignoring evidence that might prove contrary to my opinion BEFORE ANYBODY EVEN PRESENTED IT. I am truly humbled. 😱
Unless Batman can throw his Batarangs near the speed of light, he isn't knocking out Jamie before Jamie can take a step or snap his fingers and thus create dupes who will continue the fight. The scans show: that A) Jamie can create dupes very quickly and B) that it is impossible for Batman to win the fight with physical attacks given the nature of Jamie's powers. But, as you said, how could that possible factor into this fight?
[QUOTE=6509268]Originally posted by TheKahn
And how exactly do you know (or get to decide) what is "likely" for Jamie to do??? Sounds like that damnable jobber aura of Batman where his opponents [b]must either underutilized their abilities and/or underestimate him so he can win. 🙄
The argument was that given the rate at which Jamie can create dupes then he could (as extrapolated from his powerset and past feats) generate hundreds of dupes in a matter of moments. I don't recall anyone saying he needed prep time.[/b]
Show me a comic where he's multipled himself that fast in a manner of seconds.
Well then it should be no problem for you to post a scan of Batman knocking someone out instantly with the gas he normally carries while that person is holding his or her breathe.
Dude, how can Jamie survive simply be holding his breath? Gas Masks block the mouth AND the nose, and he doesn't have one.
Remember it's just not just Jamie that is running away (or even charging Batman) but also his dupes that get generated with every step he takes or every time he snaps his fingers (and the dupes they create with every step they take and so on, and so on, ect) all running in different directions. As Darkcrawler stated (as this is exponential multiplication): with each step or each snap the numbers increase as 1, 2, 4, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, and so on. So it would literally take only seconds for Batman to be facing hundreds of opponents.
I wasn't aware that Jamie could duplicate 2048 copies.
Wow! Man, that really proves just how open minded and objective you are. I mean by dismissing scans before they are even posted you have shown that there is absolutely no way you could be a Batman fanboy. Where did you learn this amazing debating tactic? I would have never thought of ignoring evidence that might prove contrary to my opinion BEFORE ANYBODY EVEN PRESENTED IT. I am truly humbled. : eek :
Thanks!
Unless Batman can throw his Batarangs near the speed of light, he isn't knocking out Jamie before Jamie can take a step or snap his fingers and thus create dupes who will continue the fight. The scans show: that A) Jamie can create dupes very quickly and B) that it is impossible for Batman to win the fight with physical attacks given the nature of Jamie's powers. But, as you said, how could that possible factor into this fight?
Again, the scans don't show you the time lapse between duplication. And it is realistically impossible for Batman to win with hand-to-hand combat, but he's smart enough to do other things.
Geez, fanboy this fanboy that.
Kahn, you gave Jamie a 10/10, did you realize that? You didn't even give Batman chance even though it was plausible that he could win.
and you called ME ignorant. I never said Jamie isn't going to win, I said Batman has a chance to win, at least a 4/10 chance. I'm not the one who brings sarcasm into arguments to demean the other person. But alas, I'm a fanboy who is ignorant.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Show me a comic where he's multipled himself that fast in a manner of seconds.
How long do you think it took him to tap his foot repeatedly? An hour? Now I understand that there isn't a stopwatch in the corner of the page showing exactly how long each action took, but I think it is fairly clear that it only took a matter of seconds for him to create the dupes.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Dude, how can Jamie survive simply be holding his breath? Gas Masks block the mouth AND the nose, and he doesn't have one.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
I wasn't aware that Jamie could duplicate 2048 copies.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Thanks!
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Again, the scans don't show you the time lapse between duplication. And it is realistically impossible for Batman to win with hand-to-hand combat, but he's smart enough to do other things.
If Jamie fights like an idiot then yes Batman can win, but keep in mind that Jamie isn't an idiot either. He sent numerous dupes into the world to live different lives and accumulate skills (such as becoming a Buddhist monk, study different martial arts, picking locks, learning Russian, becoming a licenced attorney, participating on a Olympic gymnastic team, and others) all of which he then absorbed back into himself. Given all that I think and his mutant power I think it would take a little more than a few gas pellets to beat him.
Originally posted by MrHeavySilence
Geez, fanboy this fanboy that.Kahn, you gave Jamie a 10/10, did you realize that? You didn't even give Batman chance even though it was plausible that he could win.
and you called ME ignorant. I never said Jamie isn't going to win, I said Batman has a chance to win, at least a 4/10 chance. I'm not the one who brings sarcasm into arguments to demean the other person. But alas, I'm a fanboy who is ignorant.
When exactly did I call you ignorant? 😕
And if dismissing feats before they are even posted isn't acting like a fanboy then I don't know what is. 😬
Also, I do see Batman having trouble beating Jamie, given Jamie's skills and powers, in an arena setting with no prep time. It is a feat that I could see very few street level characters do.
