The Battle Bar, Our Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy

You know, by that same logic, we could call Hitler a great man for bringing Germany into the forefront in the post-Depression world.

Except that Germany was still a powerful country during the late Weimar era and into the Nazi regime. Furthermore, it was Stalin's Russia which was producing their tanks and missiles for them because under the Treaty of Versielles (damnit...spellling please?) they could not legally do so.

Furthermore, Germany's initial victories were due to the General Staff controlling the war effort. Once Hitler demanded more control, the Nazi war machine went downhill.

Anywho, I mostly agree with your other points.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Except that Germany was still a powerful country during the late Weimar era and into the Nazi regime. Furthermore, it was Stalin's Russia which was producing their tanks and missiles for them because under the Treaty of Versielles (damnit...spellling please?) they could not legally do so.

Furthermore, Germany's initial victories were due to the General Staff controlling the war effort. Once Hitler demanded more control, the Nazi war machine went downhill.

Anywho, I mostly agree with your other points.

And I doubt very much that Germany was, ahem, powerful. When your paying a billion marks for a loaf of bread, then you know you're the Zimbabwe of the day.

And when France, of all countries, is sending troops to occupy and control a major supply of capital at one of your mines (or a factory, I may be mistaken), then, well...

The Nazis > Soviets. You know you're especially badass once you kick the shit out of the Russian army despite being underprepared, outnumbered, and your leader is a lunatic.

As far as Hitler and Stalin go, history will always remember Hitler first. He was six-jillion times the speaker and public persona that Stalin could ever dream of being and, despite being militaristically retarded, he turned a shithole of a country into the most powerful military entity on the planet in... what? A decade?

Originally posted by TG
Versailles.

Thanks.

And I doubt very much that Germany was, ahem, powerful. When your paying a billion marks for a loaf of bread, then you know you're the Zimbabwe of the day.

Yeah, hyperinflation was a *****. However, it was self induced. The leaders of the Weimar Republic did not want to pay reparations and assumed The Alliance would drop the issue if they believed the Germans really could not pay it.

And when France, of all countries, is sending troops to occupy and control a major supply of capital at one of your mines (or a factory, I may be mistaken), then, well...

Well, yeah. After the Germans said they couldn't pay, The Alliance demanded bread and other kinds of goods as compensation instead. Weimar paid, I think, twice, and then stopped. So France, backed by the rest of the Allies, was sent in to occupy certain areas and make certain that the aforementioned goods would be exported.

The hyperinflation problem, along with much of Weimar Germany's problems, were fixed prior to 1933, when Hitler took power.

Originally posted by Gideon
The Nazis > Soviets. You know you're especially badass once you kick the shit out of the Russian army despite being underprepared, outnumbered, and your leader is a lunatic.

Considering the Nazi regime lasted for about 12 years, while Stalin's reign alone lasted for 27, I would disagree. Though, anything after Stalin I don't consider to be truly "Soviet."

Plus, I hope you're kidding about the badass comment. Only months before WWII, even Ukraine kicked Russia's ass when they tried to take Kiev and lost 200,000 soldiers in the process.

The Nazi war machine was very well oiled and their General Staff was the best in the world. The Russians were the ones who were underprepared - lacking modern machine guns initially (whereas the Germans had the most advanced machine guns in the world) and ammunition, and not being in position for an invasion even though the information was already in place. Furthermore, even though the Russians outnumbered the Germans, initially they had produced far less guns. Second and third line troops were sent into battle without weapons, under orders to pick up the guns dropped by their fallen comrades and enemies.

As far as Hitler and Stalin go, history will always remember Hitler first. He was six-jillion times the speaker and public persona that Stalin could ever dream of being

Like Obama...sorry, had to slip that in there. But yes, I agree with the first part. However, in Russia you'd be very wrong. Stalin's cult of personality was massive. And even in the United States, Roosevelt and the American people took to calling him "Uncle Joe" while he was with the Alliance. Moreover, it was his idea to push for the D-Day Invasion. Roosevelt was even said to be impressed with his sharp mind and iron determination, knowing how many Russian casualties there had already been. He wasn't stupid, and was much better at the day-to-day tasks that heads-of-state do than Hitler was.

despite being militaristically retarded, he turned a shithole of a country into the most powerful military entity on the planet in... what? A decade?

Until 1936, practically all of German tanks, submarines, and missiles were produced in Russia under order of Stalin, in exchange for German scientists. In addition to that, Hitler had practically nothing to do with the war until late 1941/early 1942. The General Staff, which was kept intact and thrived under President Paul von Hindenburg's time, planned nearly the entirety of the war.

The brilliance of military minds like Erwin Rommel and Albert Kesselring is what caused Germany to become the most powerful military force on the planet. Once Hitler became involved in the decision making, things fell apart.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Yeah, hyperinflation was a *****. However, it was self induced. The leaders of the Weimar Republic did not want to pay reparations and assumed The Alliance would drop the issue if they believed the Germans really could not pay it.[/B]

Originally posted by Enyalus
Well, yeah. After the Germans said they couldn't pay, The Alliance demanded bread and other kinds of goods as compensation instead. Weimar paid, I think, twice, and then stopped. So France, backed by the rest of the Allies, was sent in to occupy certain areas and make certain that the aforementioned goods would be exported.

The hyperinflation problem, along with much of Weimar Germany's problems, were fixed prior to 1933, when Hitler took power.[/B]

Originally posted by Enyalus
Considering the Nazi regime lasted for about 12 years, while Stalin's reign alone lasted for 27, I would disagree. Though, anything after Stalin I don't consider to be truly "Soviet."

Plus, I hope you're kidding about the badass comment. Only months before WWII, even Ukraine kicked Russia's ass when they tried to take Kiev and lost 200,000 soldiers in the process.

The Nazi war machine was very well oiled and their General Staff was the best in the world. The Russians were the ones who were underprepared - lacking modern machine guns initially (whereas the Germans had the most advanced machine guns in the world) and ammunition, and not being in position for an invasion even though the information was already in place. Furthermore, even though the Russians outnumbered the Germans, initially they had produced far less guns. Second and third line troops were sent into battle without weapons, under orders to pick up the guns dropped by their fallen comrades and enemies. [/B]

Originally posted by Enyalus
Like Obama...sorry, had to slip that in there. But yes, I agree with the first part. However, in Russia you'd be very wrong. Stalin's cult of personality was massive. And even in the United States, Roosevelt and the American people took to calling him "Uncle Joe" while he was with the Alliance. Moreover, it was his idea to push for the D-Day Invasion. Roosevelt was even said to be impressed with his sharp mind and iron determination, knowing how many Russian casualties there had already been. He wasn't stupid, and was much better at the day-to-day tasks that heads-of-state do than Hitler was. [/B]

Originally posted by Enyalus
Until 1936, practically all of German tanks, submarines, and missiles were produced in Russia under order of Stalin, in exchange for German scientists. In addition to that, Hitler had practically nothing to do with the war until late 1941/early 1942. The General Staff, which was kept intact and thrived under President Paul von Hindenburg's time, planned nearly the entirety of the war.

The brilliance of military minds like Erwin Rommel and Albert Kesselring is what caused Germany to become the most powerful military force on the planet. Once Hitler became involved in the decision making, things fell apart. [/B]

Time Magazine named Stalin Man of the Year twice. 😛

In my opinion, he was a great leader.

I don't think I ever called him a great man. And if I did, my apologies.

Originally posted by Enyalus
Time Magazine named Stalin Man of the Year twice. 😛

In my opinion, he was a great leader.

I don't think I ever called him a great man. And if I did, my apologies.

I laughed out loud at that analogy. 👆

All true. But Hitler would out-orate Stalin. At, I think, 200 words a minute, Stalin's got no chance. Hitler held the fascination of the crowd and the country, his presence and zeal in his speeches is what he's often mocked about.

This is fairly obvious, Hitler was pretty much the supreme orator. However, here's an interesting question: whos the greater orator out of him and Mussolini and whos the better dictator? Mussolini held pretty much the same level of god-status that Hitler did for the germans with the Italians and he didn't need to have the insane level of control and paranoia that Hitler did. Even Gandi liked him. True he didn't have to overcome the kind of challenges that H did, but he didn't really need to. Also the March on Rome was much cooler than what H did with the enabling act/law.

Mussolini was the far better orator and actor. Hitler spoke German with a thick Bavarian accent and occasionally mangled his words. If you don't believe me, find someone who knows German and ask them to listen through his speeches.

I don't even know Italian and I still sit with rapt awe and watch Mussolini's orations.

Stalin could've ordered a thousands of the hottest and most well-endowed women in his dominion to do this chestyph in red square and they would've done it.

Originally posted by DarkSerpent
Stalin could've ordered a thousands of the hottest and most well-endowed women in his dominion to do this chestyph in red square and they would've done it.

Yes, on pain of death, and because they had to pawn their clothes to afford to pay the taxes.

nanaboobnanacheerwould've still been awesome.

Are you fluent in any language other then stupid?

one could only hope...

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
This is fairly obvious, Hitler was pretty much the supreme orator. However, here's an interesting question: whos the greater orator out of him and Mussolini and whos the better dictator? Mussolini held pretty much the same level of god-status that Hitler did for the germans with the Italians and he didn't need to have the insane level of control and paranoia that Hitler did. Even Gandi liked him. True he didn't have to overcome the kind of challenges that H did, but he didn't really need to. Also the March on Rome was much cooler than what H did with the enabling act/law.

I haven't seen too many of Mussolini's speeches, but the few I have seen are quite captivating. I'd say they're at the least equal in their speaking abilities, but I'm tempted to give it to Benito. Hitler's still faster though, I couldn't talk like that for all I'm worth (a lot).

H?

It was a long day 😮

Mussolini was the far better orator and actor. Hitler spoke German with a thick Bavarian accent and occasionally mangled his words. If you don't believe me, find someone who knows German and ask them to listen through his speeches.

I haven't seen too many of Mussolini's speeches, but the few I have seen are quite captivating. I'd say they're at the least equal in their speaking abilities, but I'm tempted to give it to Benito. Hitler's still faster though, I couldn't talk like that for all I'm worth (a lot).

This is a bit surprising. I've watched a few of those speeches myself and although I still find them pretty great, my history teacher would point out that Mussolini always seemed nervous when speaking to a crowd and then says that although Mussolini was fantastic, that he never was as good as Hitler. Guess I'll chalk that one up to ineptitude, huh.

I don't even know Italian and I still sit with rapt awe and watch Mussolini's orations.

Still? You must have alot of free time then.

BTW, how do you change your username?

Originally posted by NonSensi-Klown
Are you fluent in any language other then stupid?

Originally posted by Darth Exodus
DONT JUDGE ME!!!!

It was a long day 😮

This is a bit surprising. I've watched a few of those speeches myself and although I still find them pretty great, my history teacher would point out that Mussolini always seemed nervous when speaking to a crowd and then says that although Mussolini was fantastic, that he never was as good as Hitler. Guess I'll chalk that one up to ineptitude, huh.