KEK. I'm done discussing anything MJ since it's turns into nothing but a circle jerk with his wankers, who have trouble reading. One-on-One =/= overall player. Me saying Kobe would give MJ hell, doesn't mean I think he's a better player, or that they're close.
Carmelo Anthony could beat Magic one-on-one, and they aren't even close as NBA players - one has a legit claim as G.O.A.T depending on your criteria, while the other prolly ain't even top 10 in todays game, let alone all-time.
The thing about Wilt's time is that the exception to its lack of dominance is the center position. When you have him, Bill Russell, Walt Bellamy, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Wes Unseld, etc, AND having to play against them way more often, (Wilt played Russell 142 times during his career,) It's quite a ways better than today's "great" (lol) centers. And Bill Russell in particular was pretty insanely athletic:
watch?v=j2AlFrOj5Mc
The 2nd link is really only relevant for the video. Wilt is jumping 40-42 inches off one foot in shitty shoes.
Granted, I'm not saying Wilt > Lebron. I have them about on par, if I'm being honest.
Bill Russell was a hell of an athlete, and Kareem had god-like levels of dominance early in his career. I'd argue Wilt holding his own against Kareem at ages 34-36 suffering from arthritis and flat out dominating Russell in their individual head-to-head matchups (Though Russell checked Wilt far better than anyone else Wilt ever faced) is better than any competition he'd be up against today:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/2000208-sports-and-racing-nba/65977610
Honestly, I find Hakeem to be relatively overrated. He was undeniably dominant, but his stats just don't rub me well, neither does the fact that he only won his titles when Jordan retired, whereas Wilt actually managed to surmount the dynasty celtics.
In 1967-1968, the 76er's flat out destroyed the Celtics. In the regular season, the celtics weren't holding much steam, but come playoff time you have havlicek averaging 26-9-8 and russell giving you 14-23-5, plus his unprecedented levels of defensive ability, along with sam jones and bailey howell each dropping around 20.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHI/1968.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1968.html
Compare those playoffs per game stats across the board. The Celtics weren't at their peak, but they were still awesome to behold, and Wilt and company destroyed them.
And I'd argue young Shaq and Robinson aren't quite Wilt. Hakeem was insanely clutch, but his regular season numbers are notably inferior to Robinson's and Shaq's, which are also below Wilt's.
Then again, Hakeem in turn never really went against any historically dominant teams in his championship runs. Wilt was coaxing the dynasty Celtics into historically close game 7's annually. And while sure, he lost almost all of them, that's akin to downgrading Lebron for losing this year's finals. If anything, I've raised Lebron after what he did, there.
"So everyone who disagrees with you is wanking MJ while you're wanking Kobe? Gotcha. And no, "give him hell" can be interpreted as "they're close"."
My God, you can't read. I say you all are wanking MJ because you're being insecure at the simple fact that I suggested Kobe would give Mike a good battle one-on-one. That's it. You all in turn went on tangents about MJ being unquestionably better than Kobe as a NBA player, which is something I never ****ing denied, or stated otherwise.
How so? Both were the best players in the league who were single-handedly willing their teams to victory against much superior teams. It's a hell of a testament to their prowess that they were even able to do so.
Also, some food for thought: http://www.city-data.com/forum/basketball/2099946-hakeem-olajuwons-most-overrated-player-nba.html
And I do have Hakeem top 15 all time, and the guy above is obviously biased against Hakeem. But just take a read at the numbers and historical facts themselves to see where I'm getting at.
If by "insecure" you mean we don't believe Kobe would give MJ a good battle one on one, then you're correct.
Mmm..yeah, you are. The fact that you'll are bringing up points and arguments, no one has ever made proves it. Finals performance isn't excatly relevant in regards to one-on-one ball, LAL.
The fact that you're nerd raging shows that only one of us is insecure .
Yeah, nothing I did qualifies as "nerd raging". But your MJ dick hugging is as clear as day though. ^_~
Still...trying to see...what does that mean? You'll WERE bringing up irrelveant shit like Final Performances to one-on-one conversation, what I posted was totally relevent to one-one-one play.. Kobe being close as a one-on-one player, translates to him giving MJ a good battle or "hell". LAWL.
I pretty much made that clear from the on-set.