Beast vs. The Kingpin

I think I need to clarify something. When I originally posted this thread, I should've said that the version of Beast in this fight is the classic, blue and furry Beast from his Avenger, Defender, and X-Men days from the seventies, eighties, and mid-nighties....not the current "lion" Beast.
Also, there seems to be some debate as to Beast's strength level...well, I'm not sure about the current Beast, but the classic Beast only had a strength level where he could press about only a ton!! Now, once again, I don't know about the current one. I know he's stronger now, but I am going by the classic version....
I have an Avengers annual where Beast battles Captain America, and it's a good, close fight...but Beast gets the best of Cap and bloodies up Cap's face for him really good while rearranging Cap's nose on the other side of his head...that's why I thought this fight would be a good fight. I was going by the Beast in that particular issue....anybody that could give Cap a run for his money like that, would be an awesome match for the Kingpin....that and I've seen Kingpin whip the crap out of the Red Skull like nothing!!!! So, there ya go....hope this helps.

Originally posted by jrodslam
So is Spiderman(stronger and faster), Captain America(same strength, faster), Batman(faster, slightly weaker) and Daredevil(faster, slightly weaker). Whats your point. Kingpin has beat 3 out of 4 of the people i just mentioned. All who are stronger, faster and more agile etc. 😄

Hasn't spidey only been beaten by Kingpin once?? Or am I mistaken. I pretty sure Spidey has taken Kingpin countless more times 🙂

Originally posted by jrodslam
Actually, Beast wasnt handicapped at all when fighting Danger. He was trying to get Prof to safety BEFORE danger encountered him and Prof. Then when it/she did, Beast dropped Prof and attacked Danger. Hardly impressive considering he gave Danger a slash then caught Prof and let him go onto the ground. At that time, Danger seemed stunned and didnt even attack. Beast then clawed and bit at her while Prof was watching from the ground. Beast wasnt handicapped at all. Plus after taking a wing off and a bit of clawing(in which Danger never appeared to be fighting back), Beast shut her down.

Usually people don't enter into a fight scene whilst holding and protecting cripples on their shoulder's.

And I still consider it to be impressive because of what you said. Hardly impressive that he attacked a creature that could defeat every X-man including him by dropping Xavier, attacking the creature and ten grabbing Xavier before Charley bit the dust you say???? 🙄 I consider that to be quite impressive

Originally posted by jrodslam
You say beast outsmarted her, but he didnt. His cat instincts took over. Plus like i said she wasnt even fighting back. Hardly impressive.

He knew to outsmart the creature by reverting to his unpredictable animal instincts. Thats a feat of intelligence. He even said "I'm sure you have some scenarios running through your head. Mines simple. I'm a cat, you're a bird and the day I can't out think a computer I may as well give up."

Originally posted by jrodslam
Impressive is besting Captain America, Daredevil, Spiderman in h2h combat. All in which who have fought back and lost.

Impressive is also defeating an opponent (Whilst helping a wheelchair bound man) who not only know your every weakness but defeated you, cyclops, Emma Frost, Colossus, Shadowcat and Wolverine AND could defeat every X-man who has fought in the danger room.

Originally posted by capt it up
Why would you ever do that my friend? There has been no indication that Beast has any were near the stamina that Wolverine does. Beast has not feats of stamina that come even close to rivaling that of wolverines. Also Beast as I recall only heals about, what 4 times that of a human which would help his stamina, but compared to Wolverines healing factor it is nothing.

There is no reason for you to even think this. Beast senses are only 10 times that of a human as stated in issue 124 of the new x-men. That is not even better then many animals while Logan on the other hand has been repeatedly been stated and said to have senses superior to any animals. Also beast has no feats of senses that even put him close to Logan‘s level let alone rival Logan’s ability.

Can you prove any of this?
Logan as far as I know has far superior showings of reflex and of speed.
Now I do agree that beast’s has better agility it is not any were close to be far superior it is only slightly superior at best.

Do not worry I intend to argue this, since you are in my option very incorrect.

Again you say this, but like always I see no prove to all these claims of yours.

Which matter’s none at all when the person you are facing has far superior skills and more combat driven tactical mind

Can u prove this claim of your’s?

That’s nice and all, but Logan has Claws that can cut beast in haft

This is your option again, but logically you my friend are quite incorrect.

Ya know, just because you say I'm incorrect doesn't make it so. Because you see, I believe that you're incorrect. Does that make my word law? No. Am I correct anyway? Yea.

And did you ask me to prove that Beast is stronger than Wolverine? I shouldn't have to prove this. That's like trying to prove that Hulk physically stronger than Leech.

Originally posted by Comicbook_kid
I think I need to clarify something. When I originally posted this thread, I should've said that the version of Beast in this fight is the classic, blue and furry Beast from his Avenger, Defender, and X-Men days from the seventies, eighties, and mid-nighties....not the current "lion" Beast.
Also, there seems to be some debate as to Beast's strength level...well, I'm not sure about the current Beast, but the classic Beast only had a strength level where he could press about only a ton!! Now, once again, I don't know about the current one. I know he's stronger now, but I am going by the classic version....
I have an Avengers annual where Beast battles Captain America, and it's a good, close fight...but Beast gets the best of Cap and bloodies up Cap's face for him really good while rearranging Cap's nose on the other side of his head...that's why I thought this fight would be a good fight. I was going by the Beast in that particular issue....anybody that could give Cap a run for his money like that, would be an awesome match for the Kingpin....that and I've seen Kingpin whip the crap out of the Red Skull like nothing!!!! So, there ya go....hope this helps.

Actually, classic Beast was stronger than that. He had at least about ten tons of strength as the ape-like Beast.

Originally posted by willRules
Hasn't spidey only been beaten by Kingpin once?? Or am I mistaken. I pretty sure Spidey has taken Kingpin countless more times 🙂

Usually people don't enter into a fight scene whilst holding and protecting cripples on their shoulder's.

And I still consider it to be impressive because of what you said. Hardly impressive that he attacked a creature that could defeat every X-man including him by dropping Xavier, attacking the creature and ten grabbing Xavier before Charley bit the dust you say???? 🙄 I consider that to be quite impressive

He knew to outsmart the creature by reverting to his unpredictable animal instincts. Thats a feat of intelligence. He even said "I'm sure you have some scenarios running through your head. Mines simple. I'm a cat, you're a bird and [B] the day I can't out think a computer I may as well give up."

Impressive is also defeating an opponent (Whilst helping a wheelchair bound man) who not only know your every weakness but defeated you, cyclops, Emma Frost, Colossus, Shadowcat and Wolverine AND could defeat every X-man who has fought in the danger room. [/B]

I'm glad someone else gets this, too.

cheers 😄

Originally posted by willRules
Hasn't spidey only been beaten by Kingpin once?? Or am I mistaken. I pretty sure Spidey has taken Kingpin countless more times 🙂

I believe Spidey has been beaten by Kinpin twice or so. Its almost obvious Spidey would get more victories against Kingpin considering hes the badguy.🙄

Originally posted by willRules
Usually people don't enter into a fight scene whilst holding and protecting cripples on their shoulder's.

And I still consider it to be impressive because of what you said. Hardly impressive that he attacked a creature that could defeat every X-man including him by dropping Xavier, attacking the creature and ten grabbing Xavier before Charley bit the dust you say???? 🙄 I consider that to be quite impressive

First of all, Danger wasnt even present at the exact moment Beast tried to get Prof to safety. He was getting him out of the way of the little machines that were coming out. Danger cut Beast off at the top of the cliff. That was when the fight scene began and at that same moment, Beast let Prof go. Then HE jumped out at Danger and slashed her once while falling. Danger apparently wasnt even fighting back. At the height Beast dropped Prof, its hardly impressive to jump off right after him and catch him. Especially considering Danger wasnt fighting back.

Originally posted by willRules
He knew to outsmart the creature by reverting to his unpredictable animal instincts. Thats a feat of intelligence. He even said "I'm sure you have some scenarios running through your head. Mines simple. I'm a cat, you're a bird and [B] the day I can't out think a computer I may as well give up."[/B]

Beast didnt outsmart Danger. He tried but like he said after the quote you posted. "Sorry Professor. But when youre surrounded by psychics, you gotta work on instinct." Thats not a feat of intelligence because he tried to use it, but it didnt work. When he fought on pure instincts, he WAS in control until the feral side took over. Hence Prof saying "Hank?" and Best replying "MINE." Beast cant keep his control when hes in that state, as previous books indicate him complaining to Wolverine about it.

Originally posted by willRules
Impressive is also defeating an opponent (Whilst helping a wheelchair bound man) who not only know your every weakness but defeated you, cyclops, Emma Frost, Colossus, Shadowcat and Wolverine AND could defeat every X-man who has fought in the danger room.

Beast wasnt helping Prof when he was fighting Danger. The help was to get Prof away from Dangers son and the little machines. That was before Danger even appeared.I t wasnt even a battle considering the Danger that they fought in the mansion was built different and was aggressive in combat. The Danger Beast fought didnt even try to attack, plus she was built different. Cant really compare the two.

Originally posted by jrodslam
I believe Spidey has been beaten by Kinpin twice or so. Its almost obvious Spidey would get more victories against Kingpin considering hes the badguy.🙄

And the fact he is faster, stronger, more agile etc probably helps as well 🙄

Originally posted by jrodslam
First of all, Danger wasnt even present at the exact moment Beast tried to get Prof to safety. He was getting him out of the way of the little machines that were coming out. Danger cut Beast off at the top of the cliff. That was when the fight scene began and at that same moment, Beast let Prof go. Then HE jumped out at Danger and slashed her once while falling. Danger apparently wasnt even fighting back. At the height Beast dropped Prof, its hardly impressive to jump off right after him and catch him. Especially considering Danger wasnt fighting back.

Beast was still holding Xavier when Danger interrupted their route, he was still handicapped by trying to get the professor to safety. In my opinion Danger can only fight those it knows well and has trained with, that's why it couldn't beat xavier in issue ten. Yet Beast still defeated it without it predicting his moves. How? Beast outsmarted it by reverting to an instinctive, feral and most importantly, unpredictable form.

Originally posted by jrodslam
Beast didnt outsmart Danger. He tried but like he said after the quote you posted. "Sorry Professor. But when youre surrounded by psychics, you gotta work on instinct." Thats not a feat of intelligence because he tried to use it, but it didnt work. When he fought on pure instincts, he WAS in control until the feral side took over. Hence Prof saying "Hank?" and Best replying "MINE." Beast cant keep his control when hes in that state, as previous books indicate him complaining to Wolverine about it.

In my opinion it is a feat of intelligence by doing something Danger couldn't predict and working on a more primitive level. Hank says he is smarter than a computer and proves it by not using a computer's logic but reverting to a more animalistic attitude. He found a way to beat it. He used his brains to deduce brawn was required 🙂

Originally posted by jrodslam
Beast wasnt helping Prof when he was fighting Danger. The help was to get Prof away from Dangers son and the little machines. That was before Danger even appeared.I t wasnt even a battle considering the Danger that they fought in the mansion was built different and was aggressive in combat. The Danger Beast fought didnt even try to attack, plus she was built different. Cant really compare the two.

So Danger wasn't as effective because you say so? Well that's your opinion. In my opinion it worked probably just as well, except this time Beast figured out how to beat it. Also Beast did help Xavier. He managed to destroy Danger which was in the way of them 🙂

So anyway... Beast annihilates Kingpin.

Originally posted by jrodslam
First of all, Danger wasnt even present at the exact moment Beast tried to get Prof to safety. He was getting him out of the way of the little machines that were coming out. Danger cut Beast off at the top of the cliff. That was when the fight scene began and at that same moment, Beast let Prof go. Then HE jumped out at Danger and slashed her once while falling. Danger apparently wasnt even fighting back. At the height Beast dropped Prof, its hardly impressive to jump off right after him and catch him. Especially considering Danger wasnt fighting back.

Yea, there's a reason why Danger didn't fight back. It was too busy getting it's ass kicked. Seriously, it's not that it didn't want to fight back. It just couldn't.

Big difference.

Originally posted by willRules
And the fact he is faster, stronger, more agile etc probably helps as well 🙄

Slightly. But mainly cause the goodguys always win.😬

Originally posted by willRules
Beast was still holding Xavier when Danger interrupted their route, he was still handicapped by trying to get the professor to safety. In my opinion Danger can only fight those it knows well and has trained with, that's why it couldn't beat xavier in issue ten. Yet Beast still defeated it without it predicting his moves. How? Beast outsmarted it by reverting to an instinctive, feral and most importantly, unpredictable form.

How was he handicapped? When Danger interrupted, she didnt attack. Beast dropped Prof and attacked Danger. Danger NEVERfought back. Theres no handicap. whatsoever. In issue #10. Danger didnt fight Prof. She was fighting the X-Men. Like i said in my last post. The version of Danger Beast fought was COMPLETELY different from the version him and the X-Men fought in the mansion. Danger predicted the moves when they were fighting in the mansion. Beast counted on that again, so thats why he went off pure instinct. How was she predicting the moves if Beast was able to land the slash on her?🙄 Beast reverted cause he THOUGH she was going to attack and predict his moves again like she did in the first battle.

Originally posted by willRules
In my opinion it is a feat of intelligence by doing something Danger couldn't predict and working on a more primitive level. Hank says he is smarter than a computer and proves it by not using a computer's logic but reverting to a more animalistic attitude. He found a way to beat it. He used his brains to deduce brawn was required 🙂

See above.😄

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Yea, there's a reason why Danger didn't fight back. It was too busy getting it's ass kicked. Seriously, it's not that it didn't want to fight back. It just couldn't.

Big difference.

Not really. If you look at the fight with Danger vs the X-Men youd see that its a totally different body. A body which got destroyed. She was getting hit by Colossus, beast AND Wolvie and was still whooping their asses.

Secondly if you look at the fight with Danger vs Beast, she has a less durable body and she couldnt take a hit from Beast.

Now are you saying that Beast is stronger than Colossus and she couldnt fight back? Highly doubt it. Check the fights again.😄

Originally posted by jrodslam
How was he handicapped? When Danger interrupted, she didnt attack. Beast dropped Prof and attacked Danger. Danger NEVERfought back. Theres no handicap. whatsoever.

Danger only didn't fight back because she didn't know how to, like Beast said, she has all these complex scenarios running through her systems relating to every X-man's fighting patterns and weaknesses, yet Beast, whilst trying to get Xavier to safety (ie. Handicapped) still won due to outsmarting her by reverting to a more feral form. 🙂

Originally posted by jrodslam
Like i said in my last post. The version of Danger Beast fought was COMPLETELY different from the version him and the X-Men fought in the mansion.

Its not been confirmed. There is just as much proof of that as saying they were exactly the same in abilities 🙂

Originally posted by jrodslam
Beast counted on that again, so thats why he went off pure instinct. How was she predicting the moves if Beast was able to land the slash on her?🙄 Beast reverted cause he THOUGH she was going to attack and predict his moves again like she did in the first battle.

Danger has fought the X-men more times than every real villain put together and knows all their weakness and how they fight. Yet Beast still managed to Beat her by making himself unpredictable and being feral and relying on instinct, not logic. Its that simple and its a great feat on his part, no question about it. 🙂

Originally posted by jrodslam
Not really. If you look at the fight with Danger vs the X-Men youd see that its a totally different body. A body which got destroyed. She was getting hit by Colossus, beast AND Wolvie and was still whooping their asses.

Different body granted but that doesn't necessarily mean she is any less stronger, faster or performs better or worse in any way, thats just big assumptions now 🙂

Originally posted by jrodslam
Secondly if you look at the fight with Danger vs Beast, she has a less durable body and she couldnt take a hit from Beast.

Read post above 😄

Originally posted by jrodslam
Now are you saying that Beast is stronger than Colossus and she couldnt fight back? Highly doubt it. Check the fights again.😄

Now to be fair, Danger defeated colossus by tricking him into reverting to his non-metal form to avoid hitting Kitty when they fought. Colossus and Beast are entirely different characters with different weak spots. Just because Beast beat danger, doesn't automatically mean he is stronger than colossus, you know this 🙄 It means he simply worked out how to defeat danger............

Originally posted by willRules
Danger only didn't fight back because she didn't know how to, like Beast said, she has all these complex scenarios running through her systems relating to every X-man's fighting patterns and weaknesses, yet Beast, whilst trying to get Xavier to safety (ie. Handicapped) still won due to outsmarting her by reverting to a more feral form. 🙂

Danger didnt know how to fight back all of a sudden? Youre proving my point. When they first fought Danger in issue #10, she was running complex senarios through her systems. Thats what she does. Its her job. Beast ASSUMED she was doing the same thing. If you notice in issue #12, him saying "Im a few steps behind here. Why isnt she just out there bringing every machine with enough capaciuty to life? Why all the trics?" Beast was expecting her to go on the offensive, yet she didnt at all. Thats totaly different than the fight that occured in isse #10. Once again, Beast was not handicapped in any way because she never even attempted to attack him or Prof.

Originally posted by willRules
Its not been confirmed. There is just as much proof of that as saying they were exactly the same in abilities 🙂

Not been confirmed?🤨 Dangers original body was destroyed. The body that took hits from a diamond form Emma Frost, Colossus, Wolverine and Beast. In issue #11, Prof was holding her head in his hands. She then had an alternate body made that was much less durable as issue #12 clearly shows.

Originally posted by willRules
Danger has fought the X-men more times than every real villain put together and knows all their weakness and how they fight. Yet Beast still managed to Beat her by making himself unpredictable and being feral and relying on instinct, not logic. Its that simple and its a great feat on his part, no question about it. 🙂

The point youre trying to make is nulled for the simple fact that, she was on the offensive and had a different body in issue #10. In issue #11, her original body was destroyed and in issue #12, she had a new body that was less durable and didnt even attemt to fight Beast. You think that if it was the same Danger completely, Beast going feral would do damage to her, when Colossus, Beast and Wolverine couldnt harm her at all? Not impressive at all considering she had much weaker armor and never even attempted to attack.😬

Originally posted by willRules
Different body granted but that doesn't necessarily mean she is any less stronger, faster or performs better or worse in any way, thats just big assumptions now 🙂

Who knows if shes as strong in the new body. She never even attempted to attack. She sure as hell wasnt as durable in the new body thats for sure. Her frame of mind during the encounter with Beast was completely different than the one when she encountered the group. Thats not an assumption at all.😄

Originally posted by willRules
Now to be fair, Danger defeated colossus by tricking him into reverting to his non-metal form to avoid hitting Kitty when they fought. Colossus and Beast are entirely different characters with different weak spots. Just because Beast beat danger, doesn't automatically mean he is stronger than colossus, you know this 🙄 It means he simply worked out how to defeat danger............

Danger BEAT Colossus that way, but she was already manhandeling him along with the others. Manhandleing Colossus, Diamond Form Emma, Wolverine and Beast at the same time. Eventhough she tricked him into transforming back, they still wouldnt have beat her via physical force. I know because Beast beat Danger doesnt mean hes stronger than Colossus for the simple fact that it was a different body Danger was using and she never bothered to fight. Hardly impressive considering that Beast defeated a version of Danger thats watered down completely.🙁

Originally posted by Metalmanx
Ya know, just because you say I'm incorrect doesn't make it so. Because you see, I believe that you're incorrect. Does that make my word law? No. Am I correct anyway? Yea.

And did you ask me to prove that Beast is stronger than Wolverine? I shouldn't have to prove this. That's like trying to prove that Hulk physically stronger than Leech.

Your second line is just rediculous.
though i do believe beast is stronger then Logan it is not by as great amount as you like to think.

Also again prove it, which clearly you can't becuase if you could you would have.

Originally posted by jrodslam

I agree with you that the body may have been less durable. But I was saying it's never been confirmed it couldn't perform as well generally or wasn't as good in terms of its abilities. It didn't fight Beast back because this time it didn't know what to expect form the unpredictable, animal like Beast as opposed to the Normal, logical thinking and predictable Beast who fought with the X-men.

I really don't have any more ways to put it.

Was Danger any more or less durable in its fight with Beast than before? Most probably.

Was Danger any more or less of a threat in terms of its abilities overall? Well its never been confirmed either way so its a safe assumption to say it could perform just as well.

Why didn't Danger fight Beast back?
Because Beast outsmarted it by becoming unpredictable (eg throwing his mentor all over the place) and more animal like. Danger did not know what to expect from him......

I see your point Jrodslam and I agree with you in certain areas regarding the fight, but its simply a matter of us disagreeing on why Beast won the fight. In my opinion the way he won the fight shows an impressive feat on his part. 🙂

It can be an accurate statement to say Danger couldnt perform as well and have the same abilities. Why? Because her durability was a big part of her owning the team. Another reason is because the physics of her body was completely different. Cyclops shot a beam at her and she put up a ruby quarts shiled to block it.

You cant really say she didnt fight Beast back because she didnt know what to expect from Beast because she didnt even analyze him to run through senarios nor did she go on the offensive or defensive for that matter. If she didnt know what to expect from him, she could have still blocked. Its not like Beast moves with speed thats beyond her comprehension.

Was she less of a threat? Hell yea. In her original body, she was able to morph it. Example of that was her turning her arm into a giant mace and attacking Prof when he weas in the truck trying to run her down. In her original body, she was able to make a shield to block Colossus's punch. She also turned her hand into a drill to get at Emmas brain. Her reflexes were also above any X-Men that fought her. In the new body she dislpayed NONE of those abilities. Hell, she coulndt even take one hit.

Beast didnt display animal-like ferocity until after he dropped Prof the second time. Thats when he started with the gnawing and clawing like a cat. Ohh, but wait. Beast did that issue #10 as well. What did Danger do? She tossed him off like a rag doll then proceded to own Colossus and Emma.

Its actually a fact that Danger was less of a threat in terms of ability for the simple fact that all of what Beast did in issue #12 was done in issue #10. Only difference is that when Danger was her complete effective self, she shrugged those attacks off like nothing and in her later form with was much weaker and obselete, she was easily beaten. It had nothing to do with Beast going feral because he used the same attacks before to no effect.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on why Beast won the fight. I still dont think that victory was much impressive however.

Even though that clearly wasn't Danger at full efficiency, having his claws and teeth completely dismandle and cut through all that metal is still a pretty damn good feat...he'd cut through Kingpin like butter in my opinion. And is easily fast enough to dodge him. This is a man who has practiced dodging in Danger Room since he was a teen, after all, and is the second most agile X-Man ever.