A true omniscient, as Beyonder claimed he was, would have already known the future, because time would not be relivent... But, it was.... You think Dr Doom could do that to a true omnipotent, omnicient God?
He was very powerful, yes, probably the most powerful in Marvel at the time, but he was also full of shit most of the time.
Originally posted by Big SexyLike I said, Its been beaten to death dude. The thread with the Beyonder has been argued on both sides without any true winner. They are really no more points that can be made.
anyway this whole beyonder thing is a beaten dead horse. It was argued plenty in the what if Pre Retcon Beyonder invaded DC earth thread.
If I have to by this list, then it's:
pre-retcon Beyonder
Eternity
Galactus(full power)
JLU Amazo
or
Eternity
Galactus(normal)
JLU Amazo
post-retcon Beyonder
but if the most powerful trully in either universes, then it would be:
Marvel-(in order)
pre-retcon Beyonder
pre-retcon Molecule Man
Thanons(HOTU)
Phoenix Force
Living Tribunal
DC-(not in order)
the Endless
the Imps
Hyperman
Spectre
the Brothers
Originally posted by Mr Master
If I have to by this list, then it's:pre-retcon Beyonder
Eternity
Galactus(full power)
JLU Amazoor
Eternity
Galactus(normal)
JLU Amazo
post-retcon Beyonderbut if the most powerful trully in either universes, then it would be:
Marvel-(in order)
pre-retcon Beyonder
pre-retcon Molecule Man
Thanons(HOTU)
Phoenix Force
Living TribunalDC-(not in order)
the Endless
the Imps
Hyperman
Spectre
the Brothers
Going by current continuity Phoenix performed greater feats than anything Pre ret Beyonder or Molecule man did. Pre ret Molecule man required aid from Silver surfer to fix that fissure in Colorado. The Watchers word alone pertaining to his placing in the hierarchy is insufficient when it is not backed up by on panel feats. 😉
By presentation alone Pre ret Beyonder was certainly the most powerful in his time. But Phoenix has since been presented as more powerful and has more impressive feats in addition. The Phoenix Force spawns the multiverse, not the other way around so even if the debatably hyperbolic million times greater line was taken as fact it would change nothing as the multiverse is a creation. The Phoenix stems from the White Hot Room which itself is outside of and overlooks all of creation, including the Beyond Realm.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Going by current continuity Phoenix performed greater feats than anything Pre ret Beyonder or Molecule man did. Pre ret Molecule man required aid from Silver surfer to fix that fissure in Colorado. The Watchers word alone pertaining to his placing in the hierarchy is insufficient when it is not backed up by on panel feats. 😉
You should've kept it at your opinion of Phoenix being more powerful, once you went into ATTEMPTING to demean Molecule Man's power, you put your foot in your mouth, as you've done many a times before.
Molecule Man DID NOT require or need anyone's help to repair that fissure in Colorodo, you being a true debater I wonder why you have to make things up, is it sub-conciously or is it deliberate?
He also DID NOT need anyone's help to direct ALL of Beyonder's energy(once he died and exploded)into the new universe it created.
He did these things on his own, with his own power, yes I know it's sickening to think that the "Phoenix Force" is such a tuff guy yet is no where to be found when ALL of existence is on the line. And according to even you it existed in 84' - 85', when Beyonder was at his peak, and if everyone(characters-writers and even the owner of the company)acknowledged that Beyonder was the most powerful creation ever, and Molecule Man second, then we must all agree.
What feats are you searching for anyway, I threw a truck load in our last debate,(http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=399313&highlight=beyonder)and I conclusively prooved through scans, not talk)no pun intented, that on a multiversal scale
Beyonder had absolute power
Beyonder had absolute control over the soul
Beyonder had absolute control over the mind
Beyonder had absolute control over time
Absolute control over space
and Absolute control over reality
Everything the IG can do on a multiversal scale and beyond.
Ofcourse I only debate with proof, so here is you lying about the Molecule Man needing Silver Surfers help for anything, LOLOLOL, the only thing Silver Surfer do during this period is hold the dead baby that was once the Beyonder and he says, "the baby is dead", HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Pre ret Molecule man required aid from Silver surfer to fix that fissure in Colorado
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHALOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Watchers word alone pertaining to his placing in the hierarchy is insufficient when it is not backed up by on panel feats. 😉
Here one of the few(literally)times that the Watchers agree to interfere in a crisis, that's how serious the threat of the Beyonder was to ALL existence.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Going by current continuity Phoenix performed greater feats than anything Pre ret Beyonder or Molecule man did.
And the ONLY being that they could imagine stopping the Beyonder:
No not the Phoenix Force or the Living Tribunal or any of the Abstracts, or the so called "OAA" no, it was MOLECULE MAN! They came begging(literally).
Oh by the way ALL the other hierarchies were busy doing the same, begging, the Beyonder personally, he thought they were a joke.
Originally posted by bigbran
actully the list should go
thanos with hotu
beyonder
molecule man
pheonix/ living tribunal
thanos with ig
I don't think so,
when Thanos absorbed "everything", it obviously wasn't ALL existence, had it been and Warlock would've been sucked in as well, along with gamora and atleza,(that child that anchors our reality in place in the cosmic vortex without even knowing it)she's maaad powerful.
But when Beyonder posed a threat to the multiverse, at the time it was ALL existence except for his, ALL existence in Marvel. So therefore Beyonder had to have been more powerful than Thanons.
It's just like the contrast between money and time, just because nowadays you can be worth 50 to 90 billion dollars, doesn't mean you were richer than a guy worth 5 billion in the early 1900's let's say. They say Rockefeller was the richest man ever, and he never had anything close 50 or 90 billion like Gates has had and has.
So if Beyonder affetced or could of affected everything in the absolute sense in his time, then by definition he had more power than Thanos, since Thanos could not affect everything in his time.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
By presentation alone Pre ret Beyonder was certainly the most powerful in his time.
Absolutely, I agree
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
But Phoenix has since been presented as more powerful and has more impressive feats in addition.
I want to know what feats these are, If your talking about Phoenix remaking the 616 universe in her hands that's impressive, but Beyonder contained an explosion that would have disintegrated the Micro-verse, even Scion(a character from the Micronaut universe that has traversed many realities, some know it all character)said that was impossible by all scientific-arcane-and psionic so called "laws of limitation". This is because Beyonder operates with energies even alien to the hierarchy of the 84'-85' multiverse, which is also why Beyonder said that he affects this multiverse in many ways without even knowing it just by being here.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix Force spawns the multiverse, not the other way around so even if the debatably hyperbolic million times greater line was taken as fact it would change nothing as the multiverse is a creation.
I know she gives it life, and I always agreed that she is the most powerful being amongst all beings that reside within that multiverse, but uhh Beyonder was not one of them, and I also think Thanos was above Phoenix during the End series. sorry. I had him below Phoenix but after researching those issues thoroughly, dare I say on par with Beyonder.
And what are you talking about "the multiverse is a creation"???
What doest that have to do with Beyonder being Millions of Times more Powerful than the rest of the Multiverse Combined, what? That he's Millions of Times more Powerful than the Multiverse Phoenix created?
Think about it, this is the Multiverse she created, this must be around the best she could do because she made it and has apparently kept it, lol. Yet it had Millions of Times less energy than the Beyonder had by himself.
Originally posted by GalacticStorm
The Phoenix stems from the White Hot Room which itself is outside of and overlooks all of creation, including the Beyond Realm.
Well it might overlook whatever the beyond realm is now, but it certainly didn't in the pre-retcon era. Let's not forget Beyonder was everything outside the multiverse in 84'- to late 86', I believe it's november or october to be exact.