Who is the most powerful person out of the Marvel and DC universe?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Really? That's your take on it.

I'm making it sound?

Let me understand this from your point of view.

Beyonder uses a monumental amount of power to erase the MULTIVERSAL Concept of Death.

But in order to "re-introduce"(your words)Death, all he had to do was kill some human and automatically Death would reappear, with out any effort on his part except to simply kill some human.

You say he made everything IMMORTAL yet somehow he's able to kill some human in order to "re-introduce" Death.

I suppose this didn't take any effort either, defying the Multiversal Laws of ALL Reality by killing someone when there is no Death.

Good try but NO.

Talk about downplaying a characters feats in order to win a debate.

Wow gs, simply wow.

The fact in Marvel Comics's Secreat Wars II series is that Beyonder DID erase the MULITIVERSAL Concept of Death, as the scan will clearly show, again.

And Beyonder did infact RE-CREATE Death,

the only part of your illusion that's fact, is that he did have to kill someone, NOT to "RE-INTRODUCE" Death,

but infact to take Death's place which Beyonder RE-CREATED in him.

This is why it took Beyonder more than a moment to RE-CREATE Death, cause it wasn't AT ALL as simple as YOU make it sound.

But here is the scan of course:

Do you know what "ANEW" means?

After Beyonder RE-CREATES the Multiversal Concept of Death,

when Beyonder say's , "and now, it begins ANEW"

Let's look that up shall we,

and disprove what you fantasized in about Beyonder "simply re-introducing Death"

From websters:

ANEW - in a new or different, typically more positive, way.

Well so much for re-introductions, this is obviously a RE-CREATION of something that was into something NEW and DIFFERENT just like the ON PANEL prrof shows.

I am the most powerful!

This guy.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Im not contorting the facts at all. The fact remains that Death is a universal abstract that has counterparts in the other realities of the multiverse. One statement to the contrary doesnt suddenly erase continuity my friend. Thats something youre just gonna have to accept im afraid.

Regardless wiping out Death as impressive as that is, still doesnt cut it. Listing second rate feats will get you nowhere when youre trying to argue that he was the top being.

Your gonna have to except what Marvel Company says.
Your gonna have to except what Stan Lee says.
Your gonna have to except what Marvel writers say.
And most importantly,
your gonna have to except the ON PANEL PROOF!

There is a Multiversal Abstract that embodies the concept of Death on a Multiversal Scale. period.

I think I'll take the comics word over yours on this one friend.

Your trying desperately to demean that feat, Killing the Multiversal Concept of Death, yet now it's second rate because you realize you can't tap dance your way around the FACT that it WAS the MULTIVERSAL ABSTRACT that embodies the Concept of Death across the ENTIRE Multiverse.

The Proof:

Looks like Mr Master has this one on lock at this point.
Great job!!

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Altering a persons destiny is nowhere near as impressive as casually amputating timelines, killing realities as a side effect and then re-growing futures with a thought. Not as good. Given the point of your argument that’s the crux of the matter

Beyonder does ALL these things time and time again.

As a matter of FACT, Beyonder one time was thinking to much on a subject that was bothering him, as a SIDE-EFFECT,

SUNS Imploded, WORLDS Collided, Parallel DIMENSIONS Collapsed upon themselves.

And yet this was only the Beginning.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Beyonder does ALL these things time and time again.

As a matter of FACT, Beyonder one time was thinking to much on a subject that was bothering him, as a SIDE-EFFECT,

SUNS Imploded, WORLDS Collided, Parallel DIMENSIONS Collapsed upon themselves.

And yet this was only the Beginning.

Sorry forgot the scan, here it is:

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Looks like Mr Master has this one on lock at this point.
Great job!!

Thank AV,

but I ain't through just yet.

Originally posted by Mr Master
The Phoenix has always been an interesting cosmic entity...when it/she was first revealed, The Watcher, (I believe), said the Phoenix Force was second only to God. Hyperbole, for sure, that should be ignored...since Galactus was once referred to, (by the same Watcher), as the most powerful being in the universe. Fast-forward to the 90's and a slew of cosmic crossovers (mostly Infinity stuff) and events (ie. Warlock on trial) and the Phoenix is nowhere to be seen. Fast-forward even further to 'X-Men: Forever' and it's revealed that the Phoenix Force is the ressurection force, and all cosmic beings (including LT) will be replaced by mutants in the future. Sure, fine...I have no problem. Next we see the 'White-Crown' Phoenix holding Universe 616 in the palm of her hand, and all I have to say is WHOA! When did she/it go from being pretty much nonfactorish to on par with, (or superior to), LT?

But anyway...the best and most coherent explanation I've read describing the Phoenix (and LT's) role in the MU is this:
1. The multiverse is a forest...each tree is a separate universe (Eternity/Infinity).
2. The Phoenix Force is the lifeforce...the sap that flows within these trees.
3. LT is the landscaping man who makes sure that no tree grows substantially taller than another, he also chops down any diseased/decaying trees, so they don't affect any of the others. Or he could be holding a shotgun, to guard from invaders from another forest (ie. Beyonder as he was shown before the retcon).[/B]

I've seen them before.

In fact, I think I've TYPED them before over at CBR. 😱

It's okay...I'm flattered. 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Altering a persons destiny is nowhere near as impressive as casually amputating timelines, killing realities as a side effect and then re-growing futures with a thought. Not as good. Given the point of your argument that’s the crux of the matter

Already proved that Beyonder could have SHATTERED the Timestream ALL together.

Already proved that Beyonder causes side effects that are equally destructive if not greater.

Now let's see Beyonder "re-grow" futures.

There's so many but I'll post several.

Ok let's start here:

remember the Doctor Doom that was in Secret Wars the first series,

that wasn't really Doom,(well technically it was but read)that was a Future self of Doom plucked from the timestream courtesy of the Beyonder,

This is incredible,

Not only does Beyonder use a Doom from the future to fight in the Secret Wars saga, which now explains how DOOM was able to manipulate Galactus's vast technology, but the funny thing is Doom was already dead, he had been dead since FF #260, when the FF Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

The insane part is,

He plucked him from a future that he himself was going to create for Doom way after the Secret Wars series I, simply amazing.

Originally posted by Mr Master
Already proved that Beyonder could have SHATTERED the Timestream ALL together.

Already proved that Beyonder causes side effects that are equally destructive if not greater.

Now let's see Beyonder "re-grow" futures.

There's so many but I'll post several.

Ok let's start here:

remember the Doctor Doom that was in Secret Wars the first series,

that wasn't really Doom,(well technically it was but read)that was a Future self of Doom plucked from the timestream courtesy of the Beyonder,

This is incredible,

Not only does Beyonder use a Doom from the future to fight in the Secret Wars saga, which now explains how DOOM was able to manipulate Galactus's vast technology, but the funny thing is Doom was already dead, he had been dead since FF #260, when the FF Doom and Silver Surfer took on Terrax.

The insane part is,

He plucked him from a future that he himself was going to create for Doom way after the Secret Wars series I, simply amazing.

This is well into the Secret Wars II series,

Now Beyonder sends Doom back in time to the Secret Wars drama that was already played out, just to re-install Doom's mind/spirit with his original body,
he speeds up that seperate event in time(Secret Wars I)and ends up in the now, with a fully revived and renewd DOOM.

Unbelievable.

Originally posted by Lord S
Hmm...these words look familiar.

I've seen them before.

In fact, I think I've TYPED them before over at CBR. 😱

It's okay...I'm flattered. 🙂

yea I gave you props dude once I knew who wrote it,

You were obviously looking for that specific post since gs ran and cried for assistance, but several posts later I acknowledge that I got that elsewhere by googling PF vs, just didn't know where.

And I do think it's the perfect analogy as to what the LT and PF are all about.

by the way CBR forums, hmm.

Isn't that the forum GS was BANNED from for lying, warping facts and twisting the on panel proof with his interpretation of the absolute TRUTH.

GS, you wanna go run to this guy attemtpting to make my word less credible after knowing I told you I got that post from somewhere else, let's now fight fire with fire.

Actually GS didn't tell me at all.

I just made my return here a few days ago. I was looking through this thread from beginning to end, and was rather stunned when I saw that. But whatever helps your argument is cool with me, I too am more than annoyed with this Phoenix Force nonsense.

I have never seen GS at CBR.

I'd also like to add that I think GS is a good guy.

Carry on.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Otherworld is an otherdimensional realm, Battleworld was a planet 😂 Know your stuff

Fine,

Beyonder can create otherdimensional realms aswell, while he's fooling around explaining himself:

Originally posted by Lord S
Actually GS didn't tell me at all.

I just made my return here a few days ago. I was looking through this thread from beginning to end, and was rather stunned when I saw that. But whatever helps your argument is cool with me, I too am more than annoyed with this Phoenix Force nonsense.

I have never seen GS at CBR.

I'd also like to add that I think GS is a good guy.

Carry on.

My bad then.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Youre correct the Celestials do stem from another universe, they stem from hyperspace as i previously stated

Hyperspace nothing, it's another universe period.

What? So every universe they were passing by was in hyperspace? LOL.

You interpret the facts as you see fit, and I'll show the facts, let the audience decide.

Here it is clearly and plainly.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Doesnt prove your point at all. Please show me where it states or depicts hes all reality.

Nowhere is it stated that the Beyond Realm is everything outside all known existence. It states that beyond known existence lies the Beyond Realm. you interpreted that as meaning it was everything beyond known existence. That point was never stated or depicted, that is just your supposition. Dont treate that as fact.

The scan will speak for itself.

Your LIES or ignorance(giving you the benefit of the doubt)will be uncovered just like they've been before.

If it CLEARLY says, "Beyond our own reality lies THE universe of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being", that's from the famous bio.
http://www.marveldirectory.com/otherdimensions/beyond.htm

And in the comic book or on panel proof,

Molecule Man says, "Here we are someplace outside earth's universe and ALL the Infinite Adjacent Dimensions which MAKE UP the MULTIVERSE... in other words, BEYOND ALL KNOWN EXISTENCE, this MUST be the Beyond Realm!"

I really don't know how else to interpret this.

The only other known existence is the one you know, but,

Marvel, Stan, the Writers, the Comic book and ALL of us READ and SEE the same thing, except you, how strange.

The PROOF:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Regardless, during the pre ret period we were shown that beyond the multiverse lies the New Universe therefore your supposition is conclusively incorrect.

Just another LIE to add to your record.

The Beyonder was introduced in MAY 1984

The New Universe was created in OCTOBER 1986

That's literally MORE than TWO years later.

Beyonder was retconned OCTOBER 1988

It's not a complete lie, but a lie nontheless because you evade certain facts to enhance your take on the issue.

This the way it trully is.

Between MAY 1984 and OCTOBER 1986

Beyonder was EVERYTHING outside the Multiverse.

After OCTOBER 1986 Beyonder was no longer everything outside the multiverse, because the New Universe was created.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Irrelevant, still not a top feat. Bigger than 616? Wheres that stated?

It's not just bigger, but immensely bigger.

Here's the scoop friend.

Originally, many Microverses existed within the Marvel Multiverse.

These multiple Microverses no longer exist. It was revealed during Peter David's Captain Marvel series, that a thus far unseen conflict between Baron Karza and Thanos had resulted in all of the Microverses of the Multiverse becoming merged into a single dimension referred to as the Microverse.

Microverse = Many UNIVERSES merged into one.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm
Secret Wars says that and yet the comments were contradicted on panel by Beyonders showings as discussed and highlighted previously. You would be very naive to take all comments stated on panel as fact unless the point theyre making is supported on panel by feats. Get outta here MM lol.

Dude whats the deal with you,

NONE of it is REAL, NOT Phoenix, NOT Beyonder, NONE of THEM!

What is there to prove on panel?

What because some artist draws it, it becomes official? AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

If I start a company of comic books and I make a charatcer that can do anything, because I feel like it, then that's what it is. Yes, JUST a FANTASY!

It's not REAL because I draw him/her doing the action, ARE YOU SERIOUS?

So ENOUGH with your "comments were contradicted on panel by Beyonders showings". This is insane already!

It's a made up COMIC BOOK CHARACTER, and his power was MILLIONS of times greater than the multiverse combined! PERIOD, not to mention that that was DRAWN, but you STILL will not yield.

We're going nowhere with this.

AND by the way,

Wasn't JUST Secret Wars that said he was the MOST POWERFUL being ever, IT WAS EVERY SINGLE TITLE of COMIC BOOKS in MARVEL that made this claim, EVERY SINGLE ONE!

[QUOTE=6717766]Originally posted by GalacticStorm
[B] None of Beyonders comments applied to Phoenix as going by current continuity she wasnt even within reality. By current continuity she surveys and guards all of creation and this would include the Beyond Realm which is just an other-dimensional universe as stated even in pre-retcon days.

Whatever,

In the other debate, "What if pre-Beyonder went berzerk..." Phoenix Force was around in 1980, now it's convinient to make her non-existent in Beyonder's prime.

And you can continue to LIE about that "other-dimensional" nonsense, but the LINK and the SCAN was PROOF enough.

Beyonder is introduced in May 1984

New Universe is introduced in OCTOBER 1986, TWO YEARS LATER!

ANYBODY can go look this up, please be my guest.

So between 84' and 86' Beyonder was ALL there was Beyond the Multiverse!

And the Link that solidifies my statement:
http://www.marveldirectory.com/otherdimensions/beyond.htm

Beyond our own reality lies THE UNIVERSE of the Beyonder - a reality embodied by a single sentient being. Period.

And like Molecule Man said in that scan I've posted so many times.
"HERE WE ARE BEYOND ALL KNOWN EXISTENCE, the BEYOND REALM!"

So WHATEVER on this dried up subject.