Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Not your claim, indeed:Put up or shut up.
I think you people can all learn something from Buddha's advice:
1. Do not be obsessed or attached even to the truth.
2. Respect and support beliefs of others.
3. Be kind to other people, even if they are hostile towards you.
4. You reap what you sow(actually, Buddha's other impersonation, namely, Jesus, also said this)
Originally posted by Wonderer
I think you people can all learn something from Buddha's advice:1. Do not be obsessed or attached even to the truth.
2. Respect and support beliefs of others.
3. Be kind to other people, even if they are hostile towards you.
4. You reap what you sow(actually, Buddha's other impersonation, namely, Jesus, also said this)
🙂 👆
There is no difference between micro- and macroevolution except that genes between species usually diverge, while genes within species usually combine. The same processes that cause within-species evolution are responsible for above-species evolution, except that the processes that cause speciation include things that cannot happen to lesser groups, such as the evolution of different sexual apparatus (because, by definition, once organisms cannot interbreed, they are different species).
Anyway, an example of macroevolution would be the fruit flies. Two groups, Rice and Salt, living in seperate and different conditions, after 25 generations, could not interbreed. Yup new species - macroevolution - right there.
Check here:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/macroevolution.html
And here:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
And bonus quote:
"Evolutionary theory is now enjoying this uncommon vigor. Yet amidst all this turmoil no biologist has been led to doubt the fact that evolution occurred; we are debating how it happened. We are all trying to explain the same thing: the tree of evolutionary descent linking all organisms by ties of genealogy. Creationists pervert and caricature this debate by conveniently neglecting the common conviction that underlies it, and by falsely suggesting that evolutionists now doubt the very phenomenon we are struggling to understand. "
-Stephen J. Gould
Originally posted by MARCMAN
After 25 generations was is still a fruit fly?Micro: Changes within the kind
Macro: creation of a new species EG A dog producing a non-dog.
Wrong. Species are something that man made up. Nature does not obey mans cataloging system.
Environments are complex systems that we cannot reproduce in the lab. Change happens over vastly long time periods of time as a response to changes in the environment. Fruit flies not becoming a new species is not proof of anything.
Originally posted by MARCMAN
My point is that Evo has not yet been proven on this thread. For Evo to be true you must beleive in Macro Evo. If you beleive in Evo then I still have not seen valid proofs.Saying that "changes" happen over billions of years is an asumption becasue it has never been observed
😕 I believe in evolution, but I do not believe in macro evolution.
Plate tectonics must also not exist because you can't see it happen. Some things in life are indirect because we live too short of a life time.
So, lemme get this straight...
IDers don't believe in evolution cuz it hasn't been "observed."
But they weren't around to see God creating the world, either.
But that they believe because it is written down.
Evolutionary theory is written down, too, but that they don't believe.
"But we believe the Bible because God wrote it down."
But...you weren't around to "observe" That, either.
How many remember this commercial?
"Hey, kids, Apple Jacks taste nothing like apples. Why do you like 'em?"
*hip, with-it kids laugh at know-nothing adults* "Cuz we just do!"
Originally posted by MARCMAN
My point is that Evo has not yet been proven on this thread. For Evo to be true you must beleive in Macro Evo. If you beleive in Evo then I still have not seen valid proofs.Saying that "changes" happen over billions of years is an asumption becasue it has never been observed
You cant observe it. The modern sysnthesis of Natural Selection hasn't been around for more than 40 years or so. YOu try watching somehting for billions of years....oh wait.
Its hardly a coincidence that all aspects of Natural Selection work, just because speciation hasn't been directly observed repeatedly doesnt mean it doesn't happen. Everything fits logically into place, unlike intelligent design.
Originally posted by MARCMAN
After 25 generations was is still a fruit fly?Micro: Changes within the kind
Macro: creation of a new species EG A dog producing a non-dog.
Its not like a dog gives birth to a rabbit and thats macroeveolution. Your lack of understading of what natural selection is does not do you credit.
Macroevolution is a sum of microevolutions that result in creature that is unable to bread with its original population. It happens in groups, often spereated geographically.
It was still a fruit fly, it just wasn't D.melongaster any more. At the generation of speciation, the creatures can look totally the same. Given different selection pressures, over time they are likely to start looking more and more different.