I'm pretty Liberal myself.
Oh, this is a handy site http://jpagel.net/politicalcompass/
Originally posted by Fire
Skipped the second question cause the first one is more interesting (and didn't feel like reading the second one completely might do it in a while tho)I'm pretty liberal in my socioeconomic values, which means I agree with most of what you say. However I'd probably be considered conservative in my opinions on government
to make it easier for ppl I agree with or am in favor of:
- Gay rights (marriage, adoption and the whole shabang)
- Freedom of religion
- Equality between men and women
- Sexual liberation (as long as it is concentual, and it isn't 'pedophilia)
- The use of marijuana (for adults)
- Abortion
- Choice (but choice needs to be safeguarded and guaranteed by law- a lot of the times)I am against
- Racism
- Oppression
- The death penalty
- Flat-taxes
- Unlimited free speech (in my opinion you can't say whatever you damn well please)now opinions on government:
IMO the state needs to make sure people have get the same chances in life (this could mean positive discrimination), free education (almost free, totally free is pretty much impossible, including uni or college), free health care (this can be totally free in some cases) the right to work and to living.
As can be seen before I am all for a progressive tax rating. The rich earn more so they should pay more. ppl who earn a minimum wage or slightly above that should not be expected to pay as much (percentile wise) as ppl who make 10.000 € or $ a month.
The government should make sure it can supply basic goods, electricity, water, transportation, Internet access and such at a decent price for all.
I can debate with right-wing and extrem-right-wing people without much of a problem. altho I think they are small minded and have a very disturbed way of looking at things
I can also debate with extrem-left-wing people altho their views are simplistic and don't work unless everyone in a society adheres to some norms (the ones they make for themselves) which is a tad too idealistic for my taste.
Hope that answered your question 🙂
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Even still.....A bouncer's job is what it is, so that's almost justifiable.But for some idiot to not want to be your freind cuz he didn't like your shirt? No wait....for TEN idiots to not want to be your freind cuz they don't like your shirt ?
"I mean, i'd **** you...but i wouldn't want to be your freind, cuz that shirt totally gives away what kind of person you are"
One of them actually said that LOL
I can't really answer this question. I'm not really any of the above.
To sum up my views, I guess I'd have to call myself a believer in the idea of a benevolent dictator or a follower of the constitutional monarcy. I believe in a strict retribution towards all indifference. There must be limits, we are not practicing animals, after all.
See, the original question is bust, because it implies a certain definition of 'liberal' that is not absolute. This country's most famous liberal is Margaret Thatcher, who was of course one of the most right-wing Conservative leaders we ever had. She was Liberal in that she believed in the principle of as little Government- and hence as little law- as possible. Don't you think being for choice is actually a very liberal position?
The definition of 'Liberal' as left-wing has really only come out of the States.
Anyway, when it comes to partisan politics or political views, I am with The West Wing- moderates suck, and partisanship is fantastic.
I'm an anarchist, not in the sense of not believing in authority or government, but in the sense that I agree with nearly all of Pierre-Joseph Proudhon's observations about failures of government. I also believe that Capitalism would be a better and more equitable economic system if it was blended with some aspects of mutualism. So I guess that makes me a radical progressive.
I'm a strong conservative (surprise to nobody, I'm sure) with a few liberal social policies mixed in.
-I am for freedom of speech. (all kinds. I just have the common sense to know that some will be hated for their speech i.e. racists, extremists, etc...)
-I am for freedom of religion. (all of them. I am learning more recently to be content with my own and not force it on others.)
-I am for a strong military and aggresive foreign policy. (being the police force/saviours of the world no longer interests me, and I think we ought to hit an enemy BEFORE they are ready to kill our citizens.)
-I support legalized marijuana use for people with a medical need for it.
-I would say that any person arrested for drug USE (not sales, mind you) should not be in jail/prison, but in a treatment program.
-I support homosexual rights up to, and including civil unions for gay couples. (marriage need not be redefined for them not to be discriminated against at tax time.)
The above position is not as strong with me as it once was. I almost feel there should be 2 kinds of marriage: one supported by the state, and one by the church, that could have 2 different types of requirements.
-I am for strict border control.
- I am pro-life. (exceptions made in cases of life of the mother.)
I do want to point out though, that all conservatives are not evil-freedom bashers as some may think.
Though we generaly want the old defintions of life, love, and marriage, we are not so foolish enough as to want the old ways of racism, and prejuidice against women or ethnic minorities.
The days of "whites only" restaraunts and restrooms are straight-up evil and wrong,... as are the days of women having no voice, and being told to stay in the kitchen.
Republicans and conservatives DON'T feel that way.
At least I dont.
In some things, I wish women didnt participate, like war.
I would rather see a woman as an Army nurse, or a computer technican, than as a front-line soldier.
Not because she CAN'T do it, but becuase I don't think she should HAVE to.
Seeing a closed casket service for a young army woman who was blown to pieces by a grenade is sad, and something that I don't personally believe that women were ever meant to have happen to them. (that is, if the men are doing their jobs correctly.)
I grew up on the east-side of San Jose, CA with all mexican/black friends.
I lived in their homes for a few years. I ate tomales for thanksgiving, and menudo for christmas.
I've worked construction, and wearhouse jobs with many folks who were illegal.
I had a stint for a few months as a janitor in a mall, washing plastic dish trays and emptying garbage cans with Mexicans.
They are, by and large, a wonderful group of people.
Full of life, and humour. Working hard to support their families, and trying to make a good life over here.
I'm not tooting my own horn here, just trying to show that I'm no biggot or racist. Estas muy facil por tu comprendar, no?
Even so, I think we should put up a big wall, or at least keep the soldiers at the border.
People in other country's all the world over wait in line for 5, 7, sometimes 10 years to come here legally.
They learn the language, and they integrate into this country, not flying their own flags, but saluting ours.
It sucks to live in some of the poorer country's (like Mexico) and we should help those less fortunate the best we can.
but....
FACT: the whole bloody world CANNOT live here.
Sorry, but they won't fit.
We must do our best in the meantime to allow in as many as we can, fairly, in order, those who have been checked out by us and approved.
As for abortion/gay marriage....
I would be willing to trade one for the other.
Two gays being married (while personally I believe homosexuality to be unnatural, and changing of the defintion as a flagrant attempt to grandstand and call attention to the gay movement) probably won't change whether or not my wife and I are getting along.
It won't affect my kids that much either I guess,... I still have the freedom to teach them that gays are not following God/nature/blank 's natural intentions for men and women.
But abortion really troubles me.
No matter how you slice it, ("murder" or not) it IS the ending of a human life. The "prevention" of a human life.
For.......
sex. 😬
15 min. of pleasure is worth more than 50+ years of a human life.
Those who argue for freedoms, for sex if you want it without a baby if you don't want it.....
aren't truly for freedom, as they are supporting the ending of a life, which has been given no freedom in this choice, and is being DENIED all of the freedoms in our constitiution: Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Folks who screw should do so knowing that a baby could come from it.
(wait... they already do.)
They should take whatever precautions to prevent it.
If those precautions fail, if the woman is pregnant, she can (either with or without her partner) make the choice to have it or give it up for adoption.
Millions of people every year are abstinent, millions are either giving kids up for adoption or want to adopt.
And many more millions (an entire 1/3rd of my generation) are not allowed to live every year.
That is NOT "freedom."
(except from reality, resonsibiltiy, and moral obligation to nuture,love, and protect innocent lives of children.)
I only support abortion to save the life of a pregnant mother, due to some medical complication associated with birth, or in the case of rape of a girl under the age of 18. I also support parental notification/consent of a girl under the age of 18, so that she is not making a foolish, rash decision by herself.
Hmmm....
I'm done for now. 🙂
Originally posted by sithsaber408
I'm a strong conservative (surprise to nobody, I'm sure) with a few liberal social policies mixed in.-I am for freedom of speech. (all kinds. I just have the common sense to know that some will be hated for their speech i.e. racists, extremists, etc...)
-I am for freedom of religion. (all of them. I am learning more recently to be content with my own and not force it on others.)
-I am for a strong military and aggresive foreign policy. (being the police force/saviours of the world no longer interests me, and I think we ought to hit an enemy BEFORE they are ready to kill our citizens.)
-I support legalized marijuana use for people with a medical need for it.
-I would say that any person arrested for drug USE (not sales, mind you) should not be in jail/prison, but in a treatment program.
-I support homosexual rights up to, and including civil unions for gay couples. (marriage need not be redefined for them not to be discriminated against at tax time.)
The above position is not as strong with me as it once was. I almost feel there should be 2 kinds of marriage: one supported by the state, and one by the church, that could have 2 different types of requirements.
-I am for strict border control.
- I am pro-life. (exceptions made in cases of life of the mother.)
I do want to point out though, that all conservatives are not evil-freedom bashers as some may think.
Though we generaly want the old defintions of life, love, and marriage, we are not so foolish enough as to want the old ways of racism, and prejuidice against women or ethnic minorities.
The days of "whites only" restaraunts and restrooms are straight-up evil and wrong,... as are the days of women having no voice, and being told to stay in the kitchen.
Republicans and conservatives DON'T feel that way.
At least I dont.
In some things, I wish women didnt participate, like war.
I would rather see a woman as an Army nurse, or a computer technican, than as a front-line soldier.
Not because she CAN'T do it, but becuase I don't think she should HAVE to.
Seeing a closed casket service for a young army woman who was blown to pieces by a grenade is sad, and something that I don't personally believe that women were ever meant to have happen to them. (that is, if the men are doing their jobs correctly.)
I grew up on the east-side of San Jose, CA with all mexican/black friends.
I lived in their homes for a few years. I ate tomales for thanksgiving, and menudo for christmas.
I've worked construction, and wearhouse jobs with many folks who were illegal.
I had a stint for a few months as a janitor in a mall, washing plastic dish trays and emptying garbage cans with Mexicans.
They are, by and large, a wonderful group of people.
Full of life, and humour. Working hard to support their families, and trying to make a good life over here.
I'm not tooting my own horn here, just trying to show that I'm no biggot or racist. Estas muy facil por tu comprendar, no?
Even so, I think we should put up a big wall, or at least keep the soldiers at the border.
People in other country's all the world over wait in line for 5, 7, sometimes 10 years to come here legally.
They learn the language, and they integrate into this country, not flying their own flags, but saluting ours.
It sucks to live in some of the poorer country's (like Mexico) and we should help those less fortunate the best we can.
but....
FACT: the whole bloody world CANNOT live here.
Sorry, but they won't fit.
We must do our best in the meantime to allow in as many as we can, fairly, in order, those who have been checked out by us and approved.
As for abortion/gay marriage....
I would be willing to trade one for the other.
Two gays being married (while personally I believe homosexuality to be unnatural, and changing of the defintion as a flagrant attempt to grandstand and call attention to the gay movement) probably won't change whether or not my wife and I are getting along.
It won't affect my kids that much either I guess,... I still have the freedom to teach them that gays are not following God/nature/blank 's natural intentions for men and women.
But abortion really troubles me.
No matter how you slice it, ("murder" or not) it IS the ending of a human life. The "prevention" of a human life.
For.......
sex. 😬
15 min. of pleasure is worth more than 50+ years of a human life.
Those who argue for freedoms, for sex if you want it without a baby if you don't want it.....
aren't truly for freedom, as they are supporting the ending of a life, which has been given no freedom in this choice, and is being DENIED all of the freedoms in our constitiution: Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Folks who screw should do so knowing that a baby could come from it.
(wait... they already do.)
They should take whatever precautions to prevent it.
If those precautions fail, if the woman is pregnant, she can (either with or without her partner) make the choice to have it or give it up for adoption.
Millions of people every year are abstinent, millions are either giving kids up for adoption or want to adopt.
And many more millions (an entire [B]1/3rd
of my generation) are not allowed to live every year.That is NOT "freedom."
(except from reality, resonsibiltiy, and moral obligation to nuture,love, and protect innocent lives of children.)
I only support abortion to save the life of a pregnant mother, due to some medical complication associated with birth, or in the case of rape of a girl under the age of 18. I also support parental notification/consent of a girl under the age of 18, so that she is not making a foolish, rash decision by herself.
Hmmm....
I'm done for now. 🙂 [/B]
Wow...now this is the kind of argument I am looking for. 🙂
I can't argue against your logic, you seem very rational to me, and you've justified all your stances pretty well.
I agree with the fact that Abortion is a more complex issue than Gay Marriage.
I do think the State should grant gay marriage, while the Church has every right to stay true to its tradition.
To me, Abortion is NOT an issue of equality. You don't hear men demanding the right to have "thier own" abortions. It's about life vs death vs choice.
Gay Marriage is ultamately an issue of equality in as many ways as you can think of.
I think it's always a shame to hear of a female soldier who was killed in war, but its the SAME shame to me, to hear a male soldier who died in war. I know the thought of women doing's a "man's dirty work" such as war sounds gruesome, but I think if a woman WANTS to join the army or marines, etc. she should have the option available to her.
She shouldn't be barred from joining a military force just because she is a woman, the same way I feel that 18 year old boys should not have to be drafted just because thier men.
There are many people who WANT to join the military, I think volunteer services are the best way to go. Using Force to gain troops (drafting) or Restricting certain people from joining (like women or gay men) should not be the option.
I used to have VERY Liberal, even offensively Liberal views, especially in the case where I was once so quick to judge religious.conservative people. But I've slowly learned that everyone has the right to beleive what they want, and I have no right to make someone feel bad about it, as long as they are not trying to enforce thier beleifs or standards upon me.
I'm still Liberal, but have a higher respect for many Conservatives, and I've always recognized the need for Law.
I hate the terms "liberal" and "conservative". I am 43 years old and have voted ever since I was 21. I don't think I'm going to continue to vote on a National level anymore, there's no point, both major parties are completely under control of corporations.
On lesser issues I (am)
Pro environment, even at the expense of individual and property rights
Against affirmative action
Support abortion rights
Support capital punishment
Feel the second amendment to the constitution means an individual has the right to own firearms (afterall, why would the government need a constitutional amendment to guarentee it's right to posess arms)
Think religion has no place in government
Support gay rights but oppose gay marriage, but then I oppose ALL marriage as a legal institution
Believe the military should be used for national defense only, never preemptively
Believe we need massive immigration reform, clamping down on illegals and tightening our borders while allowing for legitimate, legal, immigration
I am for the reform of drug laws, either legalizing or decriminalizing depending on the drug and the amount, with some exceptions
I support legalized prostitution
Except for the environment, all these are basically non issues compared to free trade/globalism to which I am opposed, I am opposed to corporate power and corporate influence in government
Sadly, corporations basically ARE the government anymore
Originally posted by Lord Urizen
Then you've met very loving ones.I know a few extemist liberals who say things like "I have the right to hate whoever I want". There are Liberals who think that wrong and right do not exist. Some of these extremist examples beleive that "morality" is nothing more than a made up attempt at conformity.
I am a Liberal, and i have many liberal freinds. I feel more free around them, i feel i can be myself without being judged. I also have a few conservative freinds, who although do not approve about much of my behavior or choices, they still respect me enough to not talk about it, and just laugh it off.
But i have recieved more direct prejudice from an extremist liberal than an extremist conservative.
In High School a Liberal Italian harassed me simply because I didn't do drugs. I know it sounds retarted, but in his mind, i was too uptight and had to many sticks up my ass or whatever, i was a "momma's boy" in his eyes, a "teacher's pet", a "pussy" for not ever wanting to take drugs.
I went to a gay club a while back, and i was insulted by many of the guys there because they didn't like my "shirt". It wasn't "$lutty enough" it wasn't revealing enough, it was too "proper" therefore i "why did i bother showing up?" "When you get a sense of style we'll be your freind"....yeah okay, if that's not the most rediculous form of prejudice, i dont know what is...
Oh wait...
Maybe this is....i met a liberal black dude, he hates Bush and all that crap. He wanted to start a fight with me, cuz i slick my hair back. He thought i was italian, im actually hispanic, but it doesn't matter. He called me things like "f-a-g", "pretty boy", "girly boy", "queer" etc. He WANTED to FIGHT because my hair was GELLED....???????
Dude...SOME Liberals are just as dangerous as some conservatives.
It sounds to me like the people you're describing are just assholes, which has nothing to do with their self-proclaimed political alignment. The "liberal black" guy is hardly what I would describe as a liberal extremist, because of his views on gay people. Liberalism, (from a social point of view) contrary to what you're describing, is entirely about respect: respecting other peoples' religious beliefs, lifestyle choices, sexual preferences, etc. A true leftist, however, should draw the line where abnormality ends and bigotry begins. Basically, if you're not hurting anyone else with your beliefs, they're fine, but no Nazi or Klansmen deserves to have their beliefs "respected" by anyone.
Anyways.... I would describe myself as a socialist. I'm all for Marxist-style communism eventually, but I don't think a true communist state could survive in the world today. If it didn't collapse inwards because of too many greedy bastards unable to accept the concept of money not existing, there's a good chance it would be labeled as a "terrorist" state by somebody.
Originally posted by Darth Revan
It sounds to me like the people you're describing are just assholes, which has nothing to do with their self-proclaimed political alignment. The "liberal black" guy is hardly what I would describe as a liberal extremist, because of his views on gay people. Liberalism, (from a social point of view) contrary to what you're describing, is entirely about respect: respecting other peoples' religious beliefs, lifestyle choices, sexual preferences, etc. A true leftist, however, should draw the line where abnormality ends and bigotry begins. Basically, if you're not hurting anyone else with your beliefs, they're fine, but no Nazi or Klansmen deserves to have their beliefs "respected" by anyone.Anyways.... I would describe myself as a socialist. I'm all for Marxist-style communism eventually, but I don't think a true communist state could survive in the world today. If it didn't collapse inwards because of too many greedy bastards unable to accept the concept of money not existing, there's a good chance it would be labeled as a "terrorist" state by somebody.
You made a great point, but there are people who identify themselves as Liberals who say that their hatred should also be respected. Many will argue that they have the right to hate anyone they want, and that no one should force them to like someone they don't want to like.
I don't think I ever brought up the "liberal black guy" as a liberal extremist, im sorry if i said that, but i dont thnk that way. I just used that example to show a liberal who is being a hypocrit.
Even if Liberalism is about respect, it is also about the freedom of an individual as oppose to conformity. And in the most extreme mentality, a person can do "whatever they want". There are people who think this way, who consider themselves Liberals.
Personally, I get along more with Liberals than Conservatives, but there are still many liberals i know who I feel I cannot trust. I go to the School of Visual Arts, where 90% of the school is Liberal, yet it is also one of the most hectic enviroments to be in sometimes. There are liberals who don't like the idea of being "politically correct" and will say things like "f.a.g", "negro", "spic", "fat", "ugly" and not necessarily say those things as an insult, but say those things like normal adjectives, and expect no one else to get offended.
Freedom of Speech is ALSO such an issue with some Liberals, as they feel they should be able to say whatever the hell they want, like they don't beleive in cause and effect...consequences.
Bardock> YES
Urizen> Well, of course we should be able to hate people. I hate plenty of people. The difference between me and someone who goes around calling people f@gs is that I dislike individual people for their individual faults, not whatever group they happen to belong to... The other difference is I don't tell other people to think the same as I do, nor do I go around lynching the people I hate.
As for liberals who use racially/sexually derogatory words on a regular basis, let me say that if you talk to someone who is a TRUE liberal extremist (Marxists, socialists, communists, anarchists, "leftists", etc) they will generally tell you that free speech stops being reasonable when people are using it as an excuse to discriminate against others for reasons that are beyond the subjects' control—like being a certain race.
Originally posted by Darth Revan
Bardock> YES
Urizen> Well, of course we should be able to hate people. I hate plenty of people. The difference between me and someone who goes around calling people f@gs is that I dislike individual people for their individual faults, not whatever group they happen to belong to... The other difference is I don't tell other people to think the same as I do, nor do I go around lynching the people I hate.As for liberals who use racially/sexually derogatory words on a regular basis, let me say that if you talk to someone who is a TRUE liberal extremist (Marxists, socialists, communists, anarchists, "leftists", etc) they will generally tell you that free speech stops being reasonable when people are using it as an excuse to discriminate against others for reasons that are beyond the subjects' control—like being a certain race.
So these "wannabe" liberals that I have been bringing up..if they are not liberal extremists, what would you consider them ?