Yoda & Dooku vs. Sidious & Mace

Originally posted by Count Kent
Mace is the strongest here, and Sidious is stronger then Dooku.
In the force fight, Mace and Sidious win badly (Yoda's offensive force powers are below both Mace and Sidious), and in the saber fight, Mace and Sidious win. Either way, Mace and Sidious win.

Your posts on this forum have caused me to have an intense intolerance for you and your logic. You absolutely show no vestiges of comprehending any reason.

1) Mace is not the greatest here. Yoda and Sidious are more powerful than he is.

2) Yoda is just as offensive as Mace. Mace can't use any offensive Force powers. Hell, even in their saber fights, Palpatine had Mace on the defensive for 2/3 of their duel.

3) Yoda has, arguably, the most powerful grasp of the Force here. He's certainly equal to Sidious who is above the other two.

4) Mace is regarded as the second most powerful Jedi in the Order. Yoda is first. That right there should tell you. Yoda > Mace.

Originally posted by Escape81
I've taken it into account. But, first and foremost, you are extremely biased in favor of Count Dooku. That observation hasn't come from just this thread, but from several others - such as you stating that Dooku is the greatest Sith Lord... As such, your logic is blatantly twisted in his favor.

1) Dooku's not going to taunt Mace Windu into screwing up. Kk? That may work on Anakin 'No Control' Skywalker but not Mace 'I Can Toy With the Dark Side and Still Be a Jedi Master' Windu.

2) You see somthing because you are biased in favor of Sidious. We all have our bias, but you take it to the next level. Count Dooku is an uber fighter - but Mace is just as good.

3) If Mace can handle Sidious, he can sure as hell handle Dooku.

Hahahaha, yes i can be quite biased. But the facts I have given are all true. Dooku does have more experience. Dooku does have the better lightsaber style for this fight etc. I am not saying that Dooku is leagues above Mace, all I am saying that Dooku has a slight edge because of the facts I posted before.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
Hahahaha, yes i can be quite biased. But the facts I have given are all true. Dooku does have more experience. Dooku does have the better lightsaber style for this fight etc. I am not saying that Dooku is leagues above Mace, all I am saying that Dooku has a slight edge because of the facts I posted before.

Mm-hmm.

Count Dooku does have a better lightsaber-to-lightsaber form. But that didn't equip him to overcome Yoda or RotS Anakin. Point being that there are some people who can defeat Makashi-users.

If you count the Clone Wars, Mace saw more frontline saber-fights than Count Dooku - who spent the majority of his time plotting or taking orders from Sidious. To top it off, Mace is a lightsaber prodigy. And, not to argue semantics here, but that Dooku outsparred Mace isn't touched upon.

For all we know, it happened once. Touche?

And the facts that you gave are not all true. You think Count Dooku is going to taunt Mace Windu into screwing up? That's very poor logic. Mace can use a lightsaber form that deliberately flirts with the Dark Side, and yet he's Number Two in the entire Jedi Order.

Originally posted by Escape81
Mm-hmm.

Count Dooku does have a better lightsaber-to-lightsaber form. But that didn't equip him to overcome Yoda or RotS Anakin. Point being that there are some people who can defeat Makashi-users.

If you count the Clone Wars, Mace saw more frontline saber-fights than Count Dooku - who spent the majority of his time plotting or taking orders from Sidious. To top it off, Mace is a lightsaber prodigy. And, not to argue semantics here, but that Dooku outsparred Mace isn't touched upon.

For all we know, it happened once. Touche?

And the facts that you gave are not all true. You think Count Dooku is going to taunt Mace Windu into screwing up? That's very poor logic. Mace can use a lightsaber form that deliberately flirts with the Dark Side, and yet he's Number Two in the entire Jedi Order.

Im not going to argue the Counts previous battles because we can never draw an accurate opinion from them. Ill admit Yoda is better than him but the ROTS fight is to hazy to reach a proper conclusion.

The thing I said about Dooku taunting him is just my opinion. You can ignore it. But the other facts i stated are correct. And yes Mace is the 2nd best swordsman in the order, but OMG, Dooku isnt in the order!!! So that quote means absolutely nothing. So I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. IMHO Dooku will win but you probably think something completely different.

No one cares what you think Ox, so why don't you just leave.... Your bias is amazing. Mace>Dooku by ROTS. It's obvious, so obvious...Mace has many unique gifts with the Force that No One else has. What's so special about Count Dooku? He's an old, weak man. Mace is physically twice as strong (he's like 6'3, and way more muscular), he has better reach, he has a better lightsaber style (Vaapad probably has the most potential of all the forms).

Now, Yoda>Sidious by a good margin. Sidious can't even take Mace (and I doubt he can take Dooku either, as his saber skills in the movie aren't nearly as good). However, Mace is gonna beat Dooku before Yoda beats Sidious, and then come and help Sidious. Sidious and Mace win.

i think dooku is better than mace by a tiny amount. in obsesion they sparred and dooku was talking the whole time, proving that he wasnt really into the fight and didnt see mace as a huge threat to his life. now Mace may be phisicly stronger, but what does that matter? dooku's style is all about using as little energy as possible. His style is also made for melee combat. Ithink that because the count has full access to the dark side rather than just a bit i.e. mace he has an advantage there.

For yoda and Sidious, because sidious doesn't have a massive terrain advantage, i would say yoda wins.

"Is the Dark side stronger?"
"NO! No... But it is most seductive..."

So Dawku was just too weak to resist the urge.

PS. What Yoda says is the truth. What Obi1 says is a fact.

Plus. Count was pretty much counting sheep after Anakin took his head for a walk. So

Obiwan < Anakin < Mace < Yoda.
Obiwan < Dooku < Anakin < Mace < Yoda/Sidious

Mace rapes Dawku.
Sidious and Yoda fight equally.

Mace was a victim of the circumstances.

Originally posted by DePWNZOR
No one cares what you think Ox, so why don't you just leave.... Your bias is amazing. Mace>Dooku by ROTS. It's obvious, so obvious...Mace has many unique gifts with the Force that No One else has. What's so special about Count Dooku? He's an old, weak man. Mace is physically twice as strong (he's like 6'3, and way more muscular), he has better reach, he has a better lightsaber style (Vaapad probably has the most potential of all the forms).

Now, Yoda>Sidious by a good margin. Sidious can't even take Mace (and I doubt he can take Dooku either, as his saber skills in the movie aren't nearly as good). However, Mace is gonna beat Dooku before Yoda beats Sidious, and then come and help Sidious. Sidious and Mace win.

Ataru has the most potential.

I also remember Dooku holding off Mace in the Clone Wars comics, so Mace doesn't severely outclass anyone.

Sidious and Yoda and Mace and Dooku are practically equal in every respect so this is difficult to call

Originally posted by DePWNZOR
What's so special about Count Dooku? He's an old, weak man.

Really? Because I seem to remember Yoda being old. Does that make him weak? I also remember Dooku throwing a younger, most likely physically stronger Obi-Wan around and knocking Sora unconcious, and stabbing Master Tholme in the shoulder:

Weak? Laughable. Old? Yes. Does that stop him? No.

Mace is physically twice as strong (he's like 6'3, and way more muscular), he has better reach, he has a better lightsaber style (Vaapad probably has the most potential of all the forms).

And "size matters not". Dooku uses which form again? The lightsaber-to-lightsaber combat form?

Now, Yoda>Sidious by a good margin.

Not at all. A "good margin"? Try "by a hair". They are not on different levels whatsoever.

Ataru has the most potential.

Uh, no.

Originally posted by Rampant ox
The point I was making is that because Dooku has beaten Mace before we can only assume he will do it again, because we have not seen them fight since then. I understand that it will be extremely close but Dooku just has that something more than Mace. I dont really know what it is but in a fight I could see Dookus persuasive tounge upsetting Mace until he slips up. However this is merely my opinion. But the facts are:

Dooku
-70 + years of Makashi mastery. This also happens to be built for saber vs saber combat.
-70+ years light side experience and about 10 years darkside experience.
-Less chance of fatigue because of his Makashi style.
-Able to utilise a small area for duelling because of his Makashi style (however this is irrelevant in the hangar)
-Not bound by jedi codes e.g able to cheat

Mace
-master of Vaapad
-seat on the jedi council
-can draw of both sides of the force
-young and fit
-shatterpoint ability

With these facts in play I think Dooku has an edge. He is just too precise and experienced for Mace to handle.

Very good Rampant. For once I agree. 🙂

Yoda and Dooku are possibly the most powerfull saber-fighters. They also boast excellent balance between offensive and defensive force powers. Not once did I see Mace use a force power and all Sidious did is shoot lightning till his hair turned gray.(literally)

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Yoda and Dooku are possibly the most powerfull saber-fighters. They also boast excellent balance between offensive and defensive force powers. Not once did I see Mace use a force power and all Sidious did is shoot lightning till his hair turned gray.(literally)

1. Anakin > Dooku in sabers. Re-watch RotS again. The script confirms that Dooku was simply inferior.

2. Yoda has no offensive Force powers aside from a Force push. He's only able to hurl his opponents energy back at them. That's not his power, it's Sidious's. And that is if he catches it in time.

3. Mace? Read Shatterpoint. Yeah. Number Two in the entire Jedi Order has sucky Force-powers.

4. Oh, yeah... Yeah. I recall Sidious blasting Yoda across his office, blasting his saber from his hands, and picking up handfulls of massive Senate pods and chucking them with ease.

Yoda and Sidious are the most powerful Force-users in the PT.

Originally posted by Escape81
1. Anakin > Dooku in sabers. Re-watch RotS again. The script confirms that Dooku was simply inferior.

2. Yoda has no offensive Force powers aside from a Force push. He's only able to hurl his opponents energy back at them. That's not his power, it's Sidious's. And that is if he catches it in time.

3. Mace? Read Shatterpoint. Yeah. Number Two in the entire Jedi Order has sucky Force-powers.

4. Oh, yeah... Yeah. I recall Sidious blasting Yoda across his office, blasting his saber from his hands, and picking up handfulls of massive Senate pods and chucking them with ease.

Yoda and Sidious are the most powerful Force-users in the PT.

Dooku inferior to Skywalker? Hahahahaha. Hey everybody look at the fanboy.

Originally posted by Pyro Tyrannus
Dooku inferior to Skywalker? Hahahahaha. Hey everybody look at the fanboy.

Oh, for the love of God. Please don't label me as a fanboy. I will cry.

Do de do . . .

Lucas's statements in the commentary, the official script, and the movie all support it. I've had the argument about a dozen times here recently, on various threads.

Mocking is fine. But mocking out of ignorance isn't.

Dooku had his dirty old head cut off.
Dead he is. Sucked he did. End of debate.

I distinctly remember Dooku getting dropped in a minute and a half without Anakin breaking a sweat. I think this happened in RotS. I could be wrong, though.

Whilst Anakin may well be able to effectively overpower Dooku in a lightsabre duel, I honestly can't see him being able to withstand Dooku in a situation using the force. If Kenobi was K.O'd by Dooku choking him and tossing him across a room, I don't see Anakin being able to do anything but be a de facto ragdoll...

Originally posted by Sesse
Dooku had his dirty old head cut off.
Dead he is. Sucked he did. End of debate.

Lol.