Be lucky you have freedom's buddy or else what you just said would have sent you to death row. [/B][/QUOTE]
There have been reports where Bush and Clinton have had people jailed because certain people spoke out in public against them.Thats some freedom of speech we have. 🙄 The country has become a dictatership.
Posted by MrParker: "There have been reports where Bush and Clinton have had people jailed because certain people spoke out in public against them.Thats some freedom of speech we have. The country has become a dictatership."
Let me guess, this came from the same site that said Bush planted bombs in the WTC and that 9/11 was a hoax?
I have news for you, I dunno about Clinton but Bush certainly of all people didnt jail anyone for speaking out, unless they were being violent, then it was the police that probably jailed him- if it happened at all.
So bascially, you have no value for any freedoms anymore, like so many brainless idiot Americans today. We're all getting dumber by the minute. You never would get complaints like this back during WW2, back when people supported their nation instead of hating presidents because they were democratic or republican. If there was a WW3 right now, you know what people would do: complain, blame someone, stage a protest, and sadly the government would have to accept the stupidity of the people. America may be turning into a dictatorship- but a dictatorship controlled by the people and the media, NOT the government.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
You never would get complaints like this back during WW2, back when people supported their nation instead of hating presidents because they were democratic or republican.
You mean like herding Asian Americans into detention camps? Or segregated army units? Or African American units being forced to work in unsafe environments, loading highly explosive materials and being courtmarshalled and imprisioned for speaking out about the unsafe working conditions? Or even the suspention of elections! (Not that I think anyone but Roosevelt should have been President. But, there's a reason the 2 term law came into existance after that) Just because it's the future, doesn't mean that things have progressed for the better. But, as George Carlin said: "The Nazis may have lost the war, but fascism won it"
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
If there was a WW3 right now, you know what people would do: complain, blame someone, stage a protest, and sadly the government would have to accept the stupidity of the people. America may be turning into a dictatorship- but a dictatorship controlled by the people and the media, NOT the government.
A WW3? As in an "Axis of Evil" that we have to destroy? In your last paragraph, you say that there wasn't an ass load of protesting and rallies. But, I think when one compares the merrits of WW2 v. the current Iraq war, the reasons to go to war are pretty damned obvious. And people did protest WW2, hugely! There's a reason we didn't enter the war until early '42. The United States public was overwhelmingly isolationists. WW1 had just happened and there was little that American buisness, society or economy had to show for it. Much less we should mention the huge number of WW1 vets that were without healthcare. And, a dictatorship by the people is exactly what a democratic republic is...it's just too bad we don't have that here. As for the media? Well, we all know they're holding the cards. But, only the liberal media that beats up on poor Fox news and makes that vein on O'Rielly's neck pop out.
Long story short, the so called "liberal media", so named by the people who run it, aren't the problem. It's the politicians, who have to bow and scrape to the lobbyists of these huge corporations. (who actually run our country.) It's the politicians, democrat and republican alike, that have sliced this country up into voting districts to reassure their constant party line re-election percentages. It's the politicians that lump diversified topics on to one bill so that nothing ever gets done or passed because these bills address 15 different things that have nothing to do with one another. So if you want to point the finger at someone, don't point the finger at the people who exercise their rights of free speech and open elections. Point them at the 65% or more, of people who are too lazy to get off their ass and vote what they feel would serve them best. These politicians rely on the public not flexing their rights, which is why they can take them away and blame the American people for not noticing it sooner. It's like walking out of your office to get a drink and while you're gone someone comes in and takes your stapler...it might be a few minutes or a few hours, but when you notice it's gone you're left scratching your head saying to yourself, "damn, I know there was a stapler here a few minutes ago?"
Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
You mean like herding Asian Americans into detention camps? Or segregated army units? Or African American units being forced to work in unsafe environments, loading highly explosive materials and being courtmarshalled and imprisioned for speaking out about the unsafe working conditions? Or even the suspention of elections! (Not that I think anyone but Roosevelt should have been President. But, there's a reason the 2 term law came into existance after that) Just because it's the future, doesn't mean that things have progressed for the better. But, as George Carlin said: "The Nazis may have lost the war, but fascism won it"A WW3? As in an "Axis of Evil" that we have to destroy? In your last paragraph, you say that there wasn't an ass load of protesting and rallies. But, I think when one compares the merrits of WW2 v. the current Iraq war, the reasons to go to war are pretty damned obvious. And people did protest WW2, hugely! There's a reason we didn't enter the war until early '42. The United States public was overwhelmingly isolationists. WW1 had just happened and there was little that American buisness, society or economy had to show for it. Much less we should mention the huge number of WW1 vets that were without healthcare. And, a dictatorship by the people is exactly what a democratic republic is...it's just too bad we don't have that here. As for the media? Well, we all know they're holding the cards. But, only the liberal media that beats up on poor Fox news and makes that vein on O'Rielly's neck pop out.
Long story short, the so called "liberal media", so named by the people who run it, aren't the problem. It's the politicians, who have to bow and scrape to the lobbyists of these huge corporations. (who actually run our country.) It's the politicians, democrat and republican alike, that have sliced this country up into voting districts to reassure their constant party line re-election percentages. It's the politicians that lump diversified topics on to one bill so that nothing ever gets done or passed because these bills address 15 different things that have nothing to do with one another. So if you want to point the finger at someone, don't point the finger at the people who exercise their rights of free speech and open elections. Point them at the 65% or more, of people who are too lazy to get off their ass and vote what they feel would serve them best. These politicians rely on the public not flexing their rights, which is why they can take them away and blame the American people for not noticing it sooner. It's like walking out of your office to get a drink and while you're gone someone comes in and takes your stapler...it might be a few minutes or a few hours, but when you notice it's gone you're left scratching your head saying to yourself, "damn, I know there was a stapler here a few minutes ago?"
What I meant first was only that their was a sense of patriotism, during the war, and support for troops and things, everyone helping out (you know those old WWII movies, that likewise would likely never be seen today in half its strength. I just think that people have lost something in their way of thinking that we used to have... It took a terrorist attack (much like 12/7/41) to actually bring us together for once, and within years all that has been lost and people will actually go back and blame people other than those responsible for it happening, instead of supporting what is happening now. I just find that aggravating.
When I said WW3 I wasnt refering to the war on terror, happening everywhere, but hardly a world war. I was saying, if one really were to happen, one with just causes that were clear like WWII, I think the response would be much different. At first people might all join hands and stand up in columns but give it time and the media first, and then other people later, will start rapping on how the government is doing things wrong (no matter who is in office), it will be bad news after bad news, other people wont care at all, there will be people blaming politicians for not preventing it, etc... etc... That never happened in WWII, not at least on such a huge scale as things are today, dominated by the press. If there had been only about 1/3 of the casualties in Iraq, I bet no one would even cared about the war, they would have done what they are used to doing, not caring. But once they learned that the war people at first largely supported was actually taking hits, minor hits on a big scale, but some to say the least in the way of casualties, they realized that they were mad, and they had to take it out on someone. Guess who that should be? the government.
WHat I was trying to say is it isnt that people shouldnt have so many freedoms, but they take them for granted. We have EVERY freedom (and more) than we had back in the era of the World Wars, and more or less nobody complained back them about then. If someone had published military secrets back then like now, they would have been in jail, possibly for life, without a major case, and if there was one, people would have stoned the guy in the courtroom. Now people can get away with that, they can basically get away with anything because of the many freedoms that we have or have been added to make this country more free. Look at the trial for lots of murderers these days, why do they take so long and attract so much attention when the verdict is so obvious? Because they have to go over a thousand legal procedures that should really never have been went over at all. These people are evil, yet they still can create so many loopholes to escape through because of the many freedoms we have here. NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS! If this were a dictatorship and I was leader, I would have them all deported without trial. ( though I suppose there would be a reason for their complaining if it was a dictatorship but you know what I mean) 😉
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
What I meant first was only that their was a sense of patriotism, during the war, and support for troops and things
Consider patriotism though. These days, if you raise any objection to what the current administration is doing, you're considered unpatriotic. You're lumped in with the terrorists. Again, one has to look at the justification of WW2 v. Iraq2. The justification was "Hitler has already invaded several of his neighbors, Japan is on the move and Italy is too....oh and they've all decided to work together" vs "Saddam *might* have WMDs. And you can't really consider "atrocities" committed against his own people, otherwise we'd be invading half the countries in Africa as well.
And no one who speaks out against this war is calling our troops baby killers. When soldiers came home from Vietnam, they were spit on...that was a shame. But it isn't happening today. If anything, people feel sorry for those troops. They've gone over there to fight and die for an unjust war.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
everyone helping out
After 9/11 this country was totally on board, there would have been armies of Rosie the Riveters in the streets if they'd been called for. But what did the administration tell us to do? They said to go shopping. They didn't tell us to cut back on gas consumption, or to stop buying diamonds, or to car pool or any number of other things. They said go shopping.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
people will actually go back and blame people other than those responsible for it happening
You mean, like blaming Saddam for 9/11 when it was really Osama bin Laden?
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
When I said WW3 I wasnt refering to the war on terror, happening everywhere, but hardly a world war. I was saying, if one really were to happen, one with just causes that were clear like WWII, I think the response would be much different. At first people might all join hands and stand up in columns but give it time
I disagree. I think if there were a good reason, then we'd all get shit done the way we did in WW2.
As for the rest of your post, I can't really decipher what you mean. But I would invite you to research history a bit.
Originally posted by The Black Ghost
NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS!
Yes, they should. Especially when they're being subverted in the patriot act.
Originally posted by Grimm22
If you mean the US government paying Iraq newspapers to publish good articles over bad ones then no, because they are true.
But the bad articles are true to - technically they deserve as much print as the good ones. It is overly propagandised to selectively publish stories to make someone look good just because you want them to.
NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY SHOULD BE COMPLAINING ABOUT THEIR RIGHTS!
Yes, naughty citizens! I mean fancy feeling it is your democratic right to be unhappy about the way your government is subverting your rights. I mean, any body who doesn't totally agree and accept this is un-American. Because if you aren't with them, one is obviously against them. And so on and so on. (sarcasm, by the way)
Imperial Samurai : "Yes, naughty citizens! I mean fancy feeling it is your democratic right to be unhappy about the way your government is subverting your rights. I mean, any body who doesn't totally agree and accept this is un-American. Because if you aren't with them, one is obviously against them. And so on and so on."
-I would like a nice little list of you "subverted rights" right here- and dont say the patriot act like I can already see coming. And NO ONE ever said anything about completely agreeing with the government, you dont have to agree at all, as long as your reasons hold some logic, of which I have seen zero to none so far.
-You know, we ought to take democracy away just show arrogant people like you what it is really like to live in a dictatorship. O well, after we let China invade us you might find out. Im sorry, that would be communism...my bad. 🙄
Capt. Fantastic..:
"Consider patriotism though. These days, if you raise any objection to what the current administration is doing, you're considered unpatriotic."
-Yes, please explain this one... if this were so then why do so then 80% of America is included, that leaves 20% to say they are unpatriotic. So... not really. You are only unpatriotic if you dont support our troops and dont try to make reasonable change in government if you have something against it (I respect those people, no mater their views).
People these days are too lazy to do that though, they just complain.
"vs "Saddam *might* have WMDs. And you can't really consider "atrocities" committed against his own people, otherwise we'd be invading half the countries in Africa as well."
Read this: here and yes, chemical weapons count as WMDs, considering if you remember the Tokyo subway attack... and that was in smaller amounts than one canister of these 500! Yet even though they aint nukes, this never made the front page of most liberal newspapers, if the paper at all!
And it is perfectly just to attack a country if a dictator kills twenty thousand of his people and puts political rivals in meat grinders. Its called crimes against humanity, if you remember the holocaust.And those African places have it coming for them.
"After 9/11 this country was totally on board, there would have been armies of Rosie the Riveters in the streets if they'd been called for. But what did the administration tell us to do? They said to go shopping. They didn't tell us to cut back on gas consumption, or to stop buying diamonds, or to car pool or any number of other things. They said go shopping."
--And I will repost:
just think that people have lost something in their way of thinking that we used to have... It took a terrorist attack (much like 12/7/41) to actually bring us together for once, and within years all that has been lost and people will actually go back and blame people other than those responsible for it happening, instead of supporting what is happening now.
ANd I will add: we didnt need to do anything like that because we had no reason too, (though it might have been smart financially). The reason was because there is no reason to let an incident that causes terror spread terror, because if you recall, a lot of people were paranoid about going anywhere and doing anything becuase they were afraid of bombings. Thats what terrorism did to us, we needed it to end.
"You mean, like blaming Saddam for 9/11 when it was really Osama bin Laden?"
--Saddam was never blamed for 9/11 (at least not by the government), although he did have direct links to Al-queada. It was because he was connected to these terror groups that he actually was attacked, because he and his country were the second biggest rallying group for terrorists and he refused to do anything about it, which made him different than our so called middle eastern allies. Thats one reason we attacked, I wont go over any more, Im sure youve heard it already...
"I disagree. I think if there were a good reason, then we'd all get shit done the way we did in WW2.
As for the rest of your post, I can't really decipher what you mean. But I would invite you to research history a bit."
Hmm... Im sure we would. Not really. Fat, lazy America would sit around until we get some nukes shoved down our thoat and then say "where was the army, where was the government" MAYBE after that some of us might get smart. And Im not saying everyone is like that, but I would say more than 50% of the population could care less about standing up for this country if they had to, they would likely try to escape the country and hide under some new government while the rest of us stay back, now outnumbered and try our best to kick whats left of us into gear.
And about researching history, well I happen to be a historian (ironic isnt it) and I have had history college professors who have sometimes not known some of the things I have been telling them about. 🙄 Not to brag or anything...
"Yes, they should. Especially when they're being subverted in the patriot act."
I would say that such a comment goes towards my "blame other people for your own problems" argument. Sure, things have to be changed with the act, but its new, and there werent people back in WWII (back to that good old history, isnt that funny) that protested delayed flights or having crazy nazis arrested. Lets face it, do terrorists deserve rights to freedom of speech, etc..? (A lot more when they arent even citizens of this country) If the answer is yes, then you are a good person who cares for other but perhaps allowed a dangerous extremist loose, because it has happened already if you followed up that one case back a year ago, although it was only a small box in the newspaper with little to no information in it (fancy that) Dont think they even mentioned a name...
-And dont comment on how I dont use quotes, Im too lazy.