No Other Way?

Originally posted by debbiejo
First of all you have to consider was this His own words or the churches manipulation of it..........Second......this could be takin as meaning something else..........example:....It could mean enlightenment......and that is all

Just take it as it is for now and please try to do your best to not rationalize. Now that that's out of the way...What say you? 😂

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I think one reason people don't like Christianity is because it doesn't offer enough choices and wiggle room for them. What do you say?

JESUS SAID, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME."

JOHN 14:6

NOR IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER, FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED.

ACTS 4:12

Yeah, must really sucks for... Natives of the Americas who hadn't a chance to hear about "the lord" Jesus before the 15th Century.
Or the Chinese, or mongol-tribes or what have you. And so everyone who lived PRIOR to jesus must also be rotting in hell, since there is no salvation except through Jesus.
Yeah...

Originally posted by The Omega
Yeah, must really sucks for... Natives of the Americas who hadn't a chance to hear about "the lord" Jesus before the 15th Century.
Or the Chinese, or mongol-tribes or what have you. And so everyone who lived PRIOR to jesus must also be rotting in hell, since there is no salvation except through Jesus.
Yeah...

Well I don't know what God is going to do about those people but I'm sure you had a chance to hear and except or reject the gospel message....didn't you?

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
Well I don't know what God is going to do about those people

You mean your precious Bible doesn't tell you and you don't care????

Originally posted by The Omega
You mean your precious Bible doesn't tell you and you don't care????

The Mormons, I'm one, believe that Christ visited the Americas after he was resurrected, and we believe that this verse refers to them, and possibly to other groups that we are unaware of, as well:

John 10:16

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

But then, our interpretations don't always mesh well with other Christian interpretations.

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I think one reason people don't like Christianity is because it doesn't offer enough choices and wiggle room for them. What do you say?

JESUS SAID, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME."

JOHN 14:6

NOR IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER, FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED.

ACTS 4:12

"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body ."
Ephesians 5:23

"And he is the head of the body, the church : who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence."
Colossians 1:18

* Christ is the Savior of the Church... the true Church stated in the Bible...

"For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men , specially of those that believe."
I Timothy 4:10

* the Father is the Saviour of all people... 😉

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I think one reason people don't like Christianity is because it doesn't offer enough choices and wiggle room for them. What do you say?

I don't like Christianity because it's a homophobic, bigotted religion.

Originally posted by debbiejo
First of all you have to consider was this His own words or the churches manipulation of it..........Second......this could be takin as meaning something else..........example:....It could mean enlightenment......and that is all

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I think one reason people don't like Christianity is because it doesn't offer enough choices and wiggle room for them. What do you say?

JESUS SAID, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME."

JOHN 14:6

NOR IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER, FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED.

ACTS 4:12

I don't like or dislike Christianity. I have logical, rational, and philosophical problems with it, and thus don't believe, though I enjoy debating it. If, however, there was cause to believe, or I thought it was something worth supporting, then I would, wiggle room or no. However I don't see that happening without proof or a significant change of attitudes.

Thus it is not about choices for me, but rather a lack of proof and the way Christianity has dealt with the world. I know I don't need Christianity to live a good, full life. And since there is no proof, I see no reason to follow the path, which raises the afore mentioned problems for me (certain attitudes and so on.) I have said before, God desires my belief, then give me something to believe in. I am not going to believe just for the sake of it.

Originally posted by The Omega
Yeah, must really sucks for... Natives of the Americas who hadn't a chance to hear about "the lord" Jesus before the 15th Century.
Or the Chinese, or mongol-tribes or what have you. And so everyone who lived PRIOR to jesus must also be rotting in hell, since there is no salvation except through Jesus.
Yeah...

Originally posted by Regret
Taoism, that one to me is the most Christian religion out there. I think a Taoist that really follows the Tao te Ching is more Christian than most Christians.

Originally posted by sonnet
What country are you living in that you have not heard about missionaries and the work and (remote) countries they work in. The Bible said that the Gospel will have reached every nation before Christ returns and that is exactly what been happening.

NO!

What he is referring to are the people that lived *prior* to Jesus being born 2000 or so years ago. Human society before that day had been going on for 50,000 + to 5000 depending on how advanced people have to be considered to be called "civilised" - all these people, in short, had no access to Jesus, and thus no access to salvation. By Biblical standards they are pagan or heathen - and doomed to Hell. And they never had a chance *not* to be.

And I hate to break it to you, but missionaries aren't everywhere at once. There are deep Amazonian tribes that haven't had contact with Christian nations ever. There are isolated mountain villages. There are nations where Governments do not allow any missionaries. Millions and millions and millions of people throughout time never knew about Jesus - and never will. What is their fate?

Originally posted by Imperial_Samura
[b]NO!

What he is referring to are the people that lived *prior* to Jesus being born 2000 or so years ago. Human society before that day had been going on for 50,000 + to 5000 depending on how advanced people have to be considered to be called "civilised" - all these people, in short, had no access to Jesus, and thus no access to salvation. By Biblical standards they are pagan or heathen - and doomed to Hell. And they never had a chance *not* to be.

And I hate to break it to you, but missionaries aren't everywhere at once. There are deep Amazonian tribes that haven't had contact with Christian nations ever. There are isolated mountain villages. There are nations where Governments do not allow any missionaries. Millions and millions and millions of people throughout time never knew about Jesus - and never will. What is their fate? [/B]

good point.

JESUS SAID, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME."
JOHN 14:6

Originally posted by debbiejo
First of all you have to consider was this His own words or the churches manipulation of it..........Second......this could be takin as meaning something else..........example:....It could mean enlightenment......and that is all

Excellent points. As I once heard a priest say (probably The Most Impressive thing I've ever heard a priest say), we don't know for a fact that this is what Jesus said; we only know for a fact that this is what is written that Jesus said.

It would be naive, IMO, to think that distortion of any actual words spoken had not happened over the decades between Jesus' death and when the Book of John was written. The early Church had a very definite political agenda: to prove that the "New Covenant," as personified by the figure of Jesus, superceded the Old Covenant, that Christians were superior to Jews, that the Jews, "in fact," were being punished and rejected by God. What better way to get people to join your club than by debasing the other guy's club.

Also, those who do take those words literally are likely those who also believe in creationism/intelligent design, when so much of the Bible is better interpreted as metaphor (which means, no doubt, that everything I'm saying will bring about responses featuring major rationalization). As such, a metaphorical interpretation is that Jesus did not mean, literally, himself and only himself. He could well have meant the way of life he himself followed, the path to God as codified by his own people--the Jews--which ultimately meant (as Rabbi Hillel said), "What you don't like, don't do to others."

In any event, I am curious as to how those who interpret the Bible literally see John 4:22, where Jesus says...
"You worship what you know not, we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews."

Originally posted by sonnet
I believe what is written in the Bible and that is that everynation will hear about Jesus. The people befor Jesus, if you read the Bible, lived under the old covenant given to Abraham by God. Even then people knew that God existed and then they had a choice too, believe and obey God's laws or don't. The believers of God went to the temple where by God's law they had to slaughter a lamb for their sins and for atonement. There is the parallel of Jesus being the lamb who has been slaghtered for our sins. After Jesus died he went down into purgatory to preach to those souls and even they got a choice. If you make the effort to read the Bible you will know this. The Bible also says that when Jesus returns that every knee shall bow and proclaim Him Lord which pretty much tells me that everybody (spirit) will know about Jesus.

Second of all, if I read a book, its not necessarily true. If I read a star wars novel I didn't go...geez, I'm so glad luke skywalker saved us from darth vader. If you make an efford to read the Vedas, or the Sutras, or Greek Myths, or Persian Myths, or any other varity of sources...you will know that what you say is not true.

Originally posted by Eis
What the hell? How is Daoism Christian?

The following is the definition of Christian. To qualify for the term only one definition must be met. Taoists, if they follow the Tao te Ching will meet definitions 3, 4, and 5. Thus Taoists can be Christian. Belief in Christ or his teachings are only required on the first two definitions. They may not fit your definition, but they do fit a definition that is widely accepted.

Originally posted by Regret
Christian

Definition
1 Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2 Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
[b]3 Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4 Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5 Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

It does not take belief in Christ to be Christlike. Most good people are Christian. The belief is only one of the definitions. [/B]

Originally posted by Justbyfaith
I think one reason people don't like Christianity is because it doesn't offer enough choices and wiggle room for them. What do you say?

JESUS SAID, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME."

JOHN 14:6

NOR IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER, FOR THERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN BY WHICH WE MUST BE SAVED.

ACTS 4:12

Christianity is not what people dislike per se.

It is ULTRA CONSERVATIVE CHRISTIANS, primarily White Anglo Saxon Protestants Due the to fact that you guys make CONSTANT attempts to LIMIT the civil freedoms of other peoples, and the fact that you guys think you have the RIGHT to moderate other people's lives. ✅

After Jesus died he went down into purgatory to preach to those souls and even they got a choice.

It says into the depths of Hell, which again is more metaphorical and only means death, sleep, pit, grave.......Nothing more...And if HELL was so important why didn't Moses ever mention it when given the LAW???...

And yes, what of the Aborigines that have never heard the word of Jesus?....Many believe in a god, but not your god. Does it matter if they have the fruits of the spirit or not?....Isn't that what Jesus was talking about anyway "Treating others as you would like to be treated, and you will know then by their fruits"......

Originally posted by sonnet
I believe what is written in the Bible and that is that everynation will hear about Jesus. The people befor Jesus, if you read the Bible, lived under the old covenant given to Abraham by God. Even then people knew that God existed and then they had a choice too, believe and obey God's laws or don't. The believers of God went to the temple where by God's law they had to slaughter a lamb for their sins and for atonement. There is the parallel of Jesus being the lamb who has been slaghtered for our sins. After Jesus died he went down into purgatory to preach to those souls and even they got a choice. If you make the effort to read the Bible you will know this. The Bible also says that when Jesus returns that every knee shall bow and proclaim Him Lord which pretty much tells me that everybody (spirit) will know about Jesus.

Yes. Just because it says it is true doesn't make it so -

The Aboriginals of Australia, having lived here for 20,000 + in isolation from the rest of the world - before anything in the old testament; studies of their mythology, society and culture prior to contact with the English (so that is about 19,800 years before contact with a Christian nation) show 0% knowledge of any kind of Christian doctrine, 0% of anything Christian at all.

The deep Amazonian tribes I mentioned - the same as the aboriginals. Same with many African tribes.

A lot of historical texts from the Romans and Greeks reveal their surprises and amusement at the idea of a monotheistic religion when they encountered Judaism. They clearly had no idea about the Judea-Christian god prior to meeting a nation already holding such beliefs.

The Sumerians, the Hurrians. The same above.

There is no evidence that the people of the world somehow miraculously knew of the Christian God, his rules or Jesus prior to encountering them in people like the Jews or Christians. So many people lived a long way from the places that figrue in the bible. So it doesn't ring true they lived under some old covenant. They didn't know, not because they chose not to, but because there was no way for them to know.

And purgatory isn't mentioned in the bible, it is a man made construct (much like the bible) that was formulated some time later - possibly as a tool of assimilation in order to convince cultures who had never encountered Christianity that their previous generations were not doomed to hell because they hadn't followed the Church when they didn't know about it.