Ya don't know what you're talking about. The Yoda-Sidious battle was easily one of the best of the series. As Lucas said in the commentary, having it in the Senate chamber flinging pods around was an allegory of the end of democracy. And very cool to watch too. It's one of my favorite parts of ROTS, especially with the pre-fight banter, and the knocking-heads of the red guards! How can you not like the red guards?! Some are just never satisfied.
I can not watch the duels at the end of ROTS at all, And let me tell you why. I will start with Yoda versus Sidious because it is easier to explain why I hate it and see it as pointless.
1. The Music- it was a reused cue from TPM. There should have been epic music with a sad tone as you watched two great beings destroy the senate which symbolized democracy.
2. A good rule of editing is, that if you leave a scene and you don't know anymore than you did when you entered that scene, it should probably be cut.And that is the case in this scene. We know the exact same thing when we leave the scene as we did when we entered it. The real reason why this scene is here is not for symbolism, but as a poor ass way of showing the cause of Yoda's exhile.
Now for my reasons of hating the Anikan verus Obi-Wan duel.
1. It is suppossed to be The Duel of Duels. Sadly it is not. The only real difference between it and any other duel is that it is packed full of CGI and it has Lava Surfing. I wanted to see Anikan doing everything in his power to kill Obi-wan. I wanted to see him resort beating the shit out of Obi-Wan by hand not just by lightsaber.
2. Not enough emotion. I can't believe Obi-Wan and Anikan are that emotionally attatched, because all they did in the last movie was bicker and fight. Twenty minutes of fighting side by side and a few jokes together at the beginning of Episode 3 is not enough for me to believe that they are that close. So the emotional part of the duel is lost to me.
3. George and his stupid CGI goofiness. When Anikan and Obi-Wan are fighting across the pipes during the duel a droid flies up and does the little "what the crapt" moment and pulls me completely out of the moment. And then later when Anikan jumps onto the head of the same kind of droid to escape the lava falls this droid does another "what the crapt" moment as the camera focuses on the droids face instead of Anikan's. It is stuff like this that pisses me off. The viewer doesn't care what a stupid droid in the background or foreground is doing, we care about the characters and their actions. All these droids are doing is destracting the veiwer and showing off CGI.
I don't care if you agree with my reasons or not not but these are my reasons for hating two duels that had so much potentiel until George screwed them up. 😠
You rock...I fully agree. These duels are overblown and contain little substance, timing or suspense...and the music during both of them stinks.
The music during the Anakin and Obiwan battle over the lava seems like it's just there, not reflecting what's on screen. It's like it's from a video game segue video or something. I know what you mean about the droids...Lucas has lost it.
You see Luke/vader at the end of Empire and it's like a 3 part opera...it's geniously crafted getting more suspensful as it goes on. Oh yeah...Lucas didn't direct that one.
And you need not look any further than the Obi-wan/Grievous chase for horrible editing...It's cut right in half!! As far as smart filmaking goes, this movie is just a frustrating disaster IMO.
The only decently paced and put together prequel was Ep.I...and that's probably because he had 20 years to prepare for it! Too bad it's kinda boring.
What makes the new movies better than old ones? Is that a trick question?
Originally posted by EPIIIBITESDitto.
You rock...I fully agree....
In the context of just the movie, they're probably fine. But it's Star Wars. The last one ever. It deserved to go out with a bang... But instead it was like one of those crappy fireworks that makes a tonne of noise but only gives a tiny little spark...
The emotion is what bugs me the most about the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel... or the lack thereof. It's virtually non-exsitant. There should have been bantering, yelling, the two of them giving it their all... Anakin to kill Obi-wan, Obi-wan to save Anakin. I don't care if it's the longest sword fight in movie history... if it covered the most distance... The duel in ROTJ took place in one room and it beats this one a thousand times over. Because it has emotion.
What's maybe even more annoying is that the whole thing happens for no reason... "What the **** are you doing here?", "I've come to turn you back to the good side", "**** you, let's fight".
Add to that the fact that the choreography is worse than most fan-films, and that it all looks like a cartoon... It's arguably as bad as the AOTC duels...
Originally posted by Tangible God
Endor was more epic in the sense that this was a do or die mission, if they failed here, that was it, the Rebels are finished.Coruscant's battle had no background to it in the movies other than their kidnapping of Palpatine. We didn't really know which fleet was more powerful, who was really winning the war, or really just what was going on. Plus it focused solely on Anakin and Obi-Wan, whereas Endor was all over the map, showing us the battle from all sides.
They were assuming you watched the Cartoon Series : /
And that lengthy reasons, I give it 5 Stars, you hit it perfectly
My theory is this:
People who like both trilogies are flexible and actually take the time to analyze both trilogies equally. They realize that they are different trilogies made in different times with different messages.
People who only like the OT are reluctant to ever reanalyze the OT. They hold it as an idol that is somewho unexplanibly immutable. They then hate the PT because its not the OT and isn't trying to be.
Everyone has problems with the PT. I have porblems with the OT too. They are movies. They are not perfect or the way you want them to be.
Hey, Alliance...Apo tin Ellada vriskesse?
Originally posted by Alliance
They are not perfect or the way you want them to be.
I disagree!! "Empire" is perfect!!!...except for some overacting by Hammil...and how dumb it was when the Star Destroyers collided trying to catch the Falcon...drats it isn't perfect!!
Man, I love the final battles of ROTS. It was absolutely spectacular. Yoda/Sidous was just un-freakin'-frockin'- believeable! It was stunning. I cue it up time and time again, and I catch new things each time! I still do because I think there's something I've not seen yet.
I love the intercutting between each battle, just as Lucas has done since ROTS, meshing and weaving. Man it's a thing of beauty. Yes it is the final Star Wars, and it is spectacular. I didn't know Yoda was going to face off with Sidious, maybe non-spoiler-free folk did, but I loved the banter in the well of the senate. Then moving up the battle with the frisbee senate pods. Well, it would be just like throwing arena-sized scoreboards around in a basketball court. And added to that the fact that demorcracy was ending in the republic, man it was a stunning finale. Destroying Democracy, it was spectacular and chilling. It kind of reminded me of the burning of the Reichstag, or the Brit's trashing the White House.
Of course we all knew that Yoda, Sidous, Kenobi and Vader all survived into the next film. For two battles in which we know all four survive, the story was down to filling in the blanks. It wasn't like ROTJ when everybody died left and right! They all lived! Ya know how hard it is to end a huge battle sequence where... the main fighters live to fight another day? How rare is that? And Lucas pulls it off. And the fact is, Lucas is hemmed in due to that reality.
And another thing, what's with all this "I would have liked it better if..." Oh you would have, would you? And how would you know this? How do you know you'd like it? Some viewers seem to think they have a choice in the matter! Well, until you can purchase the rights, you don't have a choice and it ain't your movie! It's Lucas'. Enjoy his vision, I certainly do most of the time. Don't fight it, embrace your inner space opera buff.
And complaining about re-using the music? In Star Wars? You know how ridiculous that sounds? Williams could probably fit all the themes on one disk. The Battle of the Heroes track? More Williams gold. How can you not like that theme when they're battling? Post after post on these boards raves about it. It's one of the best music in all 6 films.
And the whole "It's supposed to be the duel of duels." Well, there you go again, it sounds like 1999 and everyone was saying Ep I is supposed to be the greatest movie of all time. Then everyone hated it because of all the backlash at the hype! Your expectations and hype killed ROTS' battles for you. I thought the battle was incredible. The stunt work was amazing, and running and battling in the falling lava and nearly falling over the lava falls, man it was just thrilling. I couldn't have been happier. I thought the "Well then you are lost!" banter was excellent, that was one of my favorite Obi-Wan lines.
I will be watching the final battles again and again.
Originally posted by chinabing
Well, there you go again, it sounds like 1999 and everyone was saying Ep I is supposed to be the greatest movie of all time. Then everyone hated it because of all the backlash at the hype!
I think this is an extremely valid point.
But you must admit that there are things that you would like to see done differently. The yoda crawling throught he tunnel was a major turn off and the stupid lava droids are, personally, onyl annoying.
Chinabing.. What the f*ck? Everybody said Episode I was the best movie ever? What the hell! And please cut the exaguration out about the yoda/Sidious fight, just because you got wet dreams about a CGI character fighting a messed up mutant on a small pod didn't mean it actually was un-freakin'-frockin'- believeable and stunning.
The fighting on a small pod looked incredibly dumb and the throwing of pods also wasn't that impressive. It could've been so much better!! Just look at the first fights in the movies.
It began brilliantly with the fight of Anakin versus Dooku and the fight of Mace versus palpatine was like the f*cking climax of the movies.
Then it seemed as though Lucas wanted to quickly finish writing and everything after the first half was a bit on the down side.
And the ending of the apprentice versus the former master fight concluded by Anakin just jumping on a hot slope? That was plain gay! Everyone knows how f*cked up Vader is, they could've just let Obi Wan defeat him properly by cutting off some limbs with some horrifying screaming and Obi Wan leaving him for dead when Vader falls down to burn somewhere.
Your pathetic attitude of how absu-f*cking-mazing everything was doesn't even leave space for an open mind towards improvement? Every critic probably thinks the first duels were a hundred times better than the Yoda versus Sidious one.
Didn't Steven Spielberg do that scene? Well, it was poor..
Originally posted by overlord
And the ending of the apprentice versus the former master fight concluded by Anakin just jumping on a hot slope? That was plain gay! Everyone knows how f*cked up Vader is, they could've just let Obi Wan defeat him properly by cutting off some limbs with some horrifying screaming and Obi Wan leaving him for dead when Vader falls down to burn somewhere.
Wait, I'm confused, isn't that what happened? 😉
Oh sorry, I thought the ending of the battle was due to Anakin jumping solely on a hot slope without getting any limb cut or being actually defeated. I must have been mistaken.
But yeah, if a supposed climax is to end like that, it would be pretty lame.
Good thing it didn't happen like that in that case!