An old fashioned super hero fan...

What really bothers me about what Stan Lee"envisioned" about the superhero with "normal, everyday" problems is that some pople (and I see alot of them in this board) has totally taken it way beyond what I think he was trying to do.

These days, according to some people, if you don't kill baddies in the most extreme ways or argue with your fellow superheroes for the most trivial reasons (ala X-Men) or brood, and sulk and is not totally dedicated to the point of being a psychotic (ala Batman), you're a bland super hero.

I always thought what made Superman "super" was not his strength or his x-ray vision or super speed but that despite the numerous powers that he is endowed with, he's always the ultimate boy scout. That no matter what situation arises, he will not sacrifice the morals taught to him by his adopted parents regardless of what it costs.

Think about it. The guy has every reason to believe himself a god but he thinks of himself as Clark Kent, a small town boy, living in a big city.
(Damn, I'm beginning to talk about him as if he was a real person..lol)
If he comes up against a tough situation, he doesn't do the usual "Do I kill him in order to save the other guy...do I compromise my morals to do this to save that...do I wipe my butt with charmin instead of the other brand? Do I this ? do I that? do I..do I..blah blah blah.!"
In effect, he just say "F*CK that! I'm gonna do what's morally right!"

My point is a superhero without all this self pitying is bound to appeal bland as opposed to a kid crawling on walls worrying about his older than dirt aunt.

He is what we all strive to be, with or without the super powers.

Maybe that's why he's now a "washed up" icon to some people.
He doesn't try to "put himself in the other guys shoes". He doesn't try to "think outside the box". He doesn't try to "understand where the bad guy is coming from".

Sorry for the venting.
I'm just sick of these so called "hip" fanboys who think a superhero isn't an interesting superhero if he doesn't complain that he has to finish his homework while battling a bad guy.

True dat.

Originally posted by YellowFever
What really bothers me about what Stan Lee"envisioned" about the superhero with "normal, everyday" problems is that some pople (and I see alot of them in this board) has totally taken it way beyond what I think he was trying to do.

These days, according to some people, if you don't kill baddies in the most extreme ways or argue with your fellow superheroes for the most trivial reasons (ala X-Men) or brood, and sulk and is not totally dedicated to the point of being a psychotic (ala Batman), you're a bland super hero.

I always thought what made Superman "super" was not his strength or his x-ray vision or super speed but that despite the numerous powers that he is endowed with, he's always the ultimate boy scout. That no matter what situation arises, he will not sacrifice the morals taught to him by his adopted parents regardless of what it costs.

Think about it. The guy has every reason to believe himself a god but he thinks of himself as Clark Kent, a small town boy, living in a big city.
(Damn, I'm beginning to talk about him as if he was a real person..lol)
If he comes up against a tough situation, he doesn't do the usual "Do I kill him in order to save the other guy...do I compromise my morals to do this to save that...do I wipe my butt with charmin instead of the other brand? Do I this ? do I that? do I..do I..blah blah blah.!"
In effect, he just say "F*CK that! I'm gonna do what's morally right!"

My point is a superhero without all this self pitying is bound to appeal bland as opposed to a kid crawling on walls worrying about his older than dirt aunt.

He is what we all strive to be, with or without the super powers.

Maybe that's why he's now a "washed up" icon to some people.
He doesn't try to "put himself in the other guys shoes". He doesn't try to "think outside the box". He doesn't try to "understand where the bad guy is coming from".

Sorry for the venting.
I'm just sick of these so called "hip" fanboys who think a superhero isn't an interesting superhero if he doesn't complain that he has to finish his homework while battling a bad guy.

word up, i completely agree. I am a fan of other superheroes though, don't get me wrong. I love spiderman but Superman is just so much more iconic and great. To me Batman is way overrated though, he's a cool superhero but no where near Superman imo.

Originally posted by 113
To me Batman is way overrated though, he's a cool superhero but no where near Superman imo.

😐 Go poop on yourself. Batman is great. However Superman needs his due credit. He is the absolute most well known and most iconic hero of ALL time. He is the ultimate superhero. He has a commitment in the belief to ALWAYS to the right thing, and that's what people can look up to.

I forget the exact wording--I think it was from a Justice League cartoon--but with reference to Superman, Batman says something like...
"For all his power, he never abuses it."
To which Wonder Woman replied, "And that's what makes him Superman."

As a symbol, as an icon--The Icon--he is Numero Uno. Period.

However...as a literary figure, as a person to explore with many dimensions, with personal struggle, with having had trauma personally experienced in their lives, within their memory...a character like Batman, Spiderman or Hulk is, generally, more interesting to write about, because we can relate to them more easily. It isn't just a matter of making them more "badass." It's about dealing with the Human Condition, dealing with limits, frustration, anger and depression. Superman's struggles are more existential; they don't relate as well to the everyday struggles of ordinary mortal men.

(btw, I say this as a Superman fan).

Originally posted by YellowFever
What really bothers me about what Stan Lee"envisioned" about the superhero with "normal, everyday" problems is that some pople (and I see alot of them in this board) has totally taken it way beyond what I think he was trying to do.

These days, according to some people, if you don't kill baddies in the most extreme ways or argue with your fellow superheroes for the most trivial reasons (ala X-Men) or brood, and sulk and is not totally dedicated to the point of being a psychotic (ala Batman), you're a bland super hero.

I always thought what made Superman "super" was not his strength or his x-ray vision or super speed but that despite the numerous powers that he is endowed with, he's always the ultimate boy scout. That no matter what situation arises, he will not sacrifice the morals taught to him by his adopted parents regardless of what it costs.

Think about it. The guy has every reason to believe himself a god but he thinks of himself as Clark Kent, a small town boy, living in a big city.
(Damn, I'm beginning to talk about him as if he was a real person..lol)
If he comes up against a tough situation, he doesn't do the usual "Do I kill him in order to save the other guy...do I compromise my morals to do this to save that...do I wipe my butt with charmin instead of the other brand? Do I this ? do I that? do I..do I..blah blah blah.!"
In effect, he just say "F*CK that! I'm gonna do what's morally right!"

My point is a superhero without all this self pitying is bound to appeal bland as opposed to a kid crawling on walls worrying about his older than dirt aunt.

He is what we all strive to be, with or without the super powers.

Maybe that's why he's now a "washed up" icon to some people.
He doesn't try to "put himself in the other guys shoes". He doesn't try to "think outside the box". He doesn't try to "understand where the bad guy is coming from".

Sorry for the venting.
I'm just sick of these so called "hip" fanboys who think a superhero isn't an interesting superhero if he doesn't complain that he has to finish his homework while battling a bad guy.

Originally posted by Mindship
I forget the exact wording--I think it was from a Justice League cartoon--but with reference to Superman, Batman says something like...
"For all his power, he never abuses it."
To which Wonder Woman replied, "And that's what makes him Superman."

As a symbol, as an icon--The Icon--he is Numero Uno. Period.

However...as a literary figure, as a person to explore with many dimensions, with personal struggle, with having had trauma personally experienced in their lives, within their memory...a character like Batman, Spiderman or Hulk is, generally, more interesting to write about, because we can relate to them more easily. It isn't just a matter of making them more "badass." It's about dealing with the Human Condition, dealing with limits, frustration, anger and depression. Superman's struggles are more existential; they don't relate as well to the everyday struggles of ordinary mortal men.

(btw, I say this as a Superman fan).

Originally posted by Mindship
I forget the exact wording--I think it was from a Justice League cartoon--but with reference to Superman, Batman says something like...
"For all his power, he never abuses it."
To which Wonder Woman replied, "And that's what makes him Superman."

As a symbol, as an icon--The Icon--he is Numero Uno. Period.

However...as a literary figure, as a person to explore with many dimensions, with personal struggle, with having had trauma personally experienced in their lives, within their memory...a character like Batman, Spiderman or Hulk is, generally, more interesting to write about, because we can relate to them more easily. It isn't just a matter of making them more "badass." It's about dealing with the Human Condition, dealing with limits, frustration, anger and depression. Superman's struggles are more existential; they don't relate as well to the everyday struggles of ordinary mortal men.

(btw, I say this as a Superman fan).

That was really well put. I guess that's where Superman is so unique compared to the other characters. Other superheros we can relate to, they face everyday problems. Superman however is extraordinary, he is larger than life, he's a god. Us mortal men may not be able to relate to him but the beauty of it is that we can look up to him, we can be in awe of him, we can have faith in him.

Originally posted by 113
...but the beauty of it is that we can look up to him, we can be in awe of him, we can have faith in him.

"I have never known anyone like Clark... He refuses to give in."

"It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then... he shoots fire from the skies and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him."

-Batman

Originally posted by Mindship
I forget the exact wording--I think it was from a Justice League cartoon--but with reference to Superman, Batman says something like...
"For all his power, he never abuses it."
To which Wonder Woman replied, "And that's what makes him Superman."

As a symbol, as an icon--The Icon--he is Numero Uno. Period.

However...as a literary figure, as a person to explore with many dimensions, with personal struggle, with having had trauma personally experienced in their lives, within their memory...a character like Batman, Spiderman or Hulk is, generally, more interesting to write about, because we can relate to them more easily. It isn't just a matter of making them more "badass." It's about dealing with the Human Condition, dealing with limits, frustration, anger and depression. Superman's struggles are more existential; they don't relate as well to the everyday struggles of ordinary mortal men.

(btw, I say this as a Superman fan).

LoL...

And I'm more of a Batman fan that a Superman fan.

I agree with you that having everyday personal problems DOES indeed make Batman and Spiderman more interesting to write (and read) about than Superman.

What just really bothers me is those fanboys who think they are "with it" that thinks Superman is bland because they don't identify with Supes the way they identify with Bats and Spidey.

BTW...

I read a thread here recently saying that Spiderman is more popular than Superman. I didn't want to waste my time respomdong to that thread because I found it ludicrous and dumb.

I mean is Tom Cruise more popular than Santa Claus???

Saying Spiderman is more popular than Superman is like saying the Backstreet Boys are more popular than the Beatles.
Right now, in this time and space, maybe spidey IS more popular that Supes because of the reasons you gave, Mindship.

All I know is that I went back to my native country two months ago and the little kids had blankets around their neck yelling "SHUPAMANNN"
as opposed to imitating crawling up a wall and yelling "WANG-GUMI" (which loosely translates to "king spider"- which is what they called Spiderman in my country)

They called Superman - "Shupaman" and Spiderman "Wang-Gumi"

Yep, in the final analysis, Spiderman Is more popular than Superman in the comic world and America is general.
But then again, the Backstreet Boys were more popular than the Beatles a few years ago too.

Originally posted by batdude123
"I have never known anyone like Clark... He refuses to give in."
"It is a remarkable dichotomy. In many ways, Clark is the most human of us all. Then... he shoots fire from the skies and it is difficult not to think of him as a god. And how fortunate we all are that it does not occur to him."
-Batman

YellowFever
Yes, I would agree that, right now, Spider-Man probably Is more "popular" than Superman (though not better well-known), at least in America, and I would chalk that up to another factor: thus far, Spider-Man has had the better movies.