Originally posted by jollyjim311
Solus, are you saying that Anakin (when I say Vader, I think of the real Vader, sorry) being more powerful than any Jedi in the temple,and beating the lightsaber instructor and his two learners at the same time is a black mark against him? I don't think so...
No i never said it was a black mark. I have no idea who would win the fight, that's why i put it up. Hk said that cin was a challenge for him, and i disagree.
Meh. I have nothing concrete for this, other than an opinion. But, I do believe that Darth Revan is at least on par with the likes of Yoda and Palpatine (RotS), and is most likely superior to both.
We have accounts from dozens and dozens of people who describe Revan's power. Though there is most likely exaggeration (and several of them are second-hand accounts) - we cannot deny that Revan must have had immense power, even for then.
But, then again, Lucas says that the PT was the golden age for the Jedi as far as lightsaber combat is concerned . . .
So, perhaps Anakin could win . . .
Originally posted by jollyjim311
Well, Anakin is more impressive, to me, anyway. What has Revan done?
I admit it is extremely hard to judge revens strength. All we can do is speculate, and i SPECULATE that the most power full sith in the universe at a time of strife and war is more powerful then a brand new sith apprentice of a time where the strongest force user climbed his way to the top through trickery and politics. (psst...that's sidous)
Originally posted by Darth Solus
I admit it is extremely hard to judge revens strength. All we can do is speculate, and i SPECULATE that the most power full sith in the universe at a time of strife and war is more powerful then a brand new sith apprentice of a time where the strongest force user climbed his way to the top through trickery and politics. (psst...that's sidous)
Well, I argued this once. Perhaps Sidious used manipulation and politics because they were effective? Think about it - 10,000 Jedi against Sidious and Maul.
They'd get squashed.
Originally posted by Escape81
Well, I argued this once. Perhaps Sidious used manipulation and politics because they were effective? Think about it - 10,000 Jedi against Sidious and Maul.They'd get squashed.
Well not at that time. Instead of creating a fake war he could of used the clone army to destroy the republic while they were caught off gaurd with no army and just the jedi to protect them. But nooo he was afraid of getting his hands dirty so he stayed comfortably in the background and sifted his empire through the ashes of the war. Sidous was a coward.
Originally posted by Darth Solus
Well not at that time. Instead of creating a fake war he could of used the clone army to destroy the republic while they were caught off gaurd with no army and just the jedi to protect them.
Are you talking about TPM? Because then, there was no Clone Army.
Furthermore, Sidious wanted to make an Empire from the Republic. If he attempted to conquer it, could you imagine what might have happened? There'd be multiple Rebellions.
Furthermore, we know that Sidious did have the power to do it if he wanted. He controlled the CIS and the Republic. He just chose not too.
Originally posted by Lightsnake
And deny the delicious irony of letting the Jedi's own army destroy them? Sidious was having fun with the Clone Wars, watching the Jedi dig their own graves. And if the Clone Army attwacked, the Jedi would've fought back...and slaughtered them
Many clones were able to take on jedi (heck even driods were destroying them on geonosis) and + he could've done what reven did and turn many jedi into dark side elites to lead the clone troopers in a straight on war.
In a tactical and massive army duel? Most Jedi were MORe than a match for many clones and have been shown to slaughter them. And yes, Palpatine would REALLY risk himself like that...he's not leading the Jedi to Malachor V and that plan backfired hideously...Palpatine LEARNED from the past and tried something new.
Are you forgetting his plan was a smashing success?
Originally posted by Escape81
Are you talking about TPM? Because then, there was no Clone Army.Furthermore, Sidious wanted to make an Empire from the Republic. If he attempted to conquer it, could you imagine what might have happened? There'd be multiple Rebellions.
Furthermore, we know that Sidious did have the power to do it if he wanted. He controlled the CIS and the Republic. He just chose not too.
No i said not at the time when he had maul but later after he new the creation of the clone army was complete.
I agree with your second comment.
I know he chose not to. He chose not to because he was a 'politcian' not a warrior. (note-that's not a complement. haha)
Originally posted by Lightsnake
In a tactical and massive army duel? Most Jedi were MORe than a match for many clones and have been shown to slaughter them. And yes, Palpatine would REALLY risk himself like that...he's not leading the Jedi to Malachor V and that plan backfired hideously...Palpatine LEARNED from the past and tried something new.Are you forgetting his plan was a smashing success?
Yes it was a success, but it wasn't very contributive to his character.
Originally posted by Darth Solus
Many clones were able to take on jedi (heck even driods were destroying them on geonosis) and + he could've done what reven did and turn many jedi into dark side elites to lead the clone troopers in a straight on war.
That was 200 Jedi, however. We're talking about more than 10,000.
Like I said - Sidious did the smart thing. He orchestrated a war (he had far more control over the Clone Wars than Revan did in his war) to expire the Jedi's numbers, and then deliver the crushing blow by turning the Jedi's own armies against them.
As for his cowardice . . . would you call a person who orchestrates an entire war (Revan fought a war. Sidious controlled one) against an enemy (Jedi) who's numbers grossly overwhelm his own (two Sith)? Would you call Palpatine a coward considering the only thing protecting his ass was his ability to "shield" himself? Imagine if it failed during a Jedi Council debriefing?
No. Manipulators aren't necessarily cowards. Indeed, they have to have balls in order to do what they do. Sidious only fears confrontations with people who have a strong chance of defeating him.