Originally posted by LovelyOne
OH MY i loved those parts he he.
To me its disney putting in sexual refrences that will go over the head of the younger audience hehe.
Well said, I have learned through Film Noir classes that many films put meaning behind their scripts. Back in the 1940s- 50s they were not allowed ANY sort of sexual reference so they covered it up with clever lines that could get past the 'sensors' before being released. So many of Jacks lines may have had stronger meanings behind them that proves that he had feelings for her.
IE: 1944 Double Idemnity (One of the many film noirs I studied)
"There's a speed limit in this state, Mr. Neff. Forty-five miles an hour."
"How fast was I going, officer?"
"I'd say about ninety."
"Suppose you get down off your motorcycle and give me a ticket."
"Suppose I let you off with a warning this time."
Guess I didnt take film class for nothing heh.
Yeah absolutely... and the characters all seem older, more mature. like, in the first, it was young love, and now liz and will are older, their wants are more complicated.
and its true that the introduction of will's dad shifted focus for him. He made a pledge to his dad- the kind of thing that could come between him and liz as he has to make the choice to rescue his father, while possibly leaving liz for a while or something. like, he will have to choose who to rescue or something. and then, jack can step in and cover for him, hehehe....
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
Yep at that point he was trying to get her to do it with him, Obviously his way of hitting on her, the audience chuckled at this line because they all knew what Jack was up too whether or not he had feelings for her. And is why she frowned at him and stormed off. But the scenes of when they are about to kiss and when they do kiss proves that she wanted it too but she is respectable to Will so she didnt accept Jacks offer. She probably also wanted to find out if he really had feelings for her or if he was just being a pig. So maybe many ONE of the parts of the reason why she was crying is because she may have found out in that kiss that he did have feelings for her and she didnt want to admit it to herself. Also the facts you said before that she was guilty for cheating on Will. BUT she doesnt know who she has stronger feelings for.This is the tricky thing about a characters Shown emotions, the audience doesnt really 'know' what they are feeling because it could be anything.
The pointing compass may be the true hint for who she has stronger feelings for..It pointed at jack 3 times lol. It would have pointed at Will if it was him.
And Katelovespirate, thanks 🙂. I did film studies so now its like my second nature to break down and analyse characters and films. Even if I'm wrong i still find it fun hehe.
I also believe that Disney know that Jack is what makes the film and Jack is the most favorite character out of the three. So they probably know most of the audience will be rooting for Jack to get the girl.
hehe yeh I loved that subject 🙂
Liz is also changing, Her beautiful dress sinking away into the water and then the clip fading to the face of the new "rough and tough" Liz meant that she had developed as a character..it marked the end of the Lady-like liz that Will fell for. I dont think he is going to like what she is becoming..
Yeh I agree with both of you.
I think that Will isn't going to like what Liz is becoming and she is not going to let him change her..that may be the point where they "break up"
that scene where Will tried to make her sit still like a lady gaurd the chest and she shouted "NO!" and ran after him, might be a little hint for whats in store later..She doesnt want to be controlled she wants to be a free woman and Will probably will want the old lizzie. Jack symbolizes the freedom she craves. Will symbolizes the honest and constricted lifestyle she USED to have. (so many "will's" in that paragraph)
still all just guessing here. We'll have to see if Disney will break the mould of their traditional films..or if they will go for the typical ending. I already think they have broken the mould a bit with intrducing a character like Jack. JD even said that he was surprised that they wanted to step outside of the "norm" and introduce a character like him.
annyway I hope i'm not waffling on too much here. Its just that I have been wanting to discuss what I think on this relationship for ages but couldnt find the right place to do it lol.
Originally posted by katelovespirate
its true. sigh. plus it would be a lot more fun to watch jack enter a "mature relationship" than to watch him gallantly give her back to will. the will/liz relationship is old. lol.
Yes, liz is realizing who she wants to be,(a pirate) and who she wants to be with (our dear jack) and I agree, if they didn't make the whole liz and will thing happen in the first two movies, there is no hope for that relationship to come thru in the 3rd movie, no way......and yes, Jack does symbolize what liz wants so badly....freedom....she has been living in port royal with a rich family her whole life, and she has been controlled, and she wants to be a free spirited person like Jack..
Originally posted by blackpearl44
Yes, liz is realizing who she wants to be,(a pirate) and who she wants to be with (our dear jack) and I agree, if they didn't make the whole liz and will thing happen in the first two movies, there is no hope for that relationship to come thru in the 3rd movie, no way......and yes, Jack does symbolize what liz wants so badly....freedom....she has been living in port royal with a rich family her whole life, and she has been controlled, and she wants to be a free spirited person like Jack..
That’s a really good point. The Liz/Will factor was pretty much missing there throughout the movie. Disney are probably making it fade out. The Jack/Liz chemistry was definitely the more prominent of the two.
yeah, i think liz is really becoming who she has always wanted to be. will fell in love with her while she was a ladylike type and i think he is realizing that's not who she really is. i think will is really a romantic and pretty practical, i'm not sure if that's what liz is looking for. like when he told her to stay behind to guard the chest, i don't think she really appreciated that much, lol. liz wants to make her own decisions!
and yeah they didn't really show much liz/will in the 2nd movie. will's purpose in the 1st was mostly liz, now its his father.
Yes! I totally agree with you blackpearl44. Jack does symbolize what liz wants most; freedom.
Will might want to settle down or something and i cant see that working for liz. and is it just me or do will and liz never seem to have any fun together? like, jack and liz have some fun moments together were they both seem to be having a good time, but i don't see that with will and liz.
Yeah most people in a relationship have great times together like Jack and Liz do, I found myself laughing at everything me and my EX did together, basically how its shown in the first movie when their drinking together and she burns the rum. The second movie just proves that they have some chemistry and they are not just fooling around. Liz will just have to make a tough decission.
Ultimatly I think if they do get together, Will , will probably have his own ship and crew maybe become an enemy of jack in the future but NOT just yet, first he has to kill Davy Jones heart and free his father. While Liz is on Jack/barbossas ship as Jacks new lass.
Will isn't at all cold.....I don't think he could mentally exept being an enemy of Jack...I think Jack respects Will and Liz (I think shown by pulling away from the kiss) so I think if Will really loves liz, then he will want her to be happy, and if being with Jack makes her happy, will should just accept that.
Originally posted by blackpearl44
Will isn't at all cold.....I don't think he could mentally exept being an enemy of Jack...I think Jack respects Will and Liz (I think shown by pulling away from the kiss) so I think if Will really loves liz, then he will want her to be happy, and if being with Jack makes her happy, will should just accept that.
He only pulled away because the black spot appeared on his hand. I think he would have kissed her there had that not happened 🙂
I agree with you on the Will wanting Liz to be happy and accepting her wish to be a pirate with jack.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
He only pulled away because the black spot appeared on his hand. I think he would have kissed her there had that not happened 🙂
Good point, I did forget he saw the black spot, but I still think that if Will really loves liz, then he'll want her to be happy, and if being with Jack makes her happy, then he should be happy for her, I don't think he could handle being Jack's enemy.....
Originally posted by blackpearl44
Good point, I did forget he saw the black spot, but I still think that if Will really loves liz, then he'll want her to be happy, and if being with Jack makes her happy, then he should be happy for her, I don't think he could handle being Jack's enemy.....
Yeh I agree with you on that. 😄