Originally posted by lovethemtigers
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If this is true, then why did she continue to wear the hat on the black pearl and on the island - everybody on the Black Pearl and the Island knew whe was a girl - espeically with her pretty blond tresses hanging down...
I'm guessing the same reasons why everyone else wears hats. 😉
(Oh and I posted a big thing on the last page. But started a new page. Check back there for my evidence pointing all of yours down.)
I'm sorry but to me it seems like you are just putting all our points down because you think its fun to stirr us up because we all believe in the same things. And duh, everyone KNOWS that Liz loves pirates she doesnt HATE them. Why the hell did she sing the song in the first movie and tell the Comidor that she finds them "Facinating" ? why would anyone dislike something they find facinating?
[i]Originally posted by Quincy Archer
(Oh and I posted a big thing on the last page. But started a new page. Check back there for my evidence pointing all of yours down.) [/B]
OK.....Quincy Archer......if your going to have this attitude.......then don't bother posting......nobody is going to agree with you.......because your just making up things to create an argument..........and nobody appreciates it......
Originally posted by sweet_kat22
I'm sorry but to me it seems like you are just putting all our points down because you think its fun to stirr us up because we all believe in the same things. And duh, everyone KNOWS that Liz loves pirates she doesnt HATE them. Why the hell did she sing the song in the first movie and tell the Comidor that she finds them "Facinating" ? why would anyone dislike something they find facinating?
Trust me that's really not what I'm doing. I completely disagree with Jack/Liz.
Right...this is the same liz that reveals later on "I was afraid you were a pirate! That would have been awful!"
She was also pissed when Will revealed he had come along to save her with Jack Sparrow.
"(accusing) Jack?? Jack Sparrow????"
LOL omg..to say she's not wanting to be a pirate means that you clearly dont understand whats going on in the film..You tell me one thing that suggests Liz isnt turning into a pirate in the latest movie?
She was joking yes..but only with the last moment of the interview..That guy is known over here for making serious interviews with people but also giving them a light heated touch. Its how us brits do it. What would be the point in asking her that question and her answering it if it didnt ring true to the movie..she is THERE to talk about the movie with him.
Will didn't come back to get Jack to give to Davy..it was to come and stab the heart, kill davy and rescue his dad, so that would result in Will not giving Jack to Davy...again WHAT MOVIE were YOU watching?
Well to note. He looks at the the compass before going back..remember that the compass is not working for him throughout the movie and there it suddenly worked..It was pointing at Liz there. I say this because it also "suddenly worked" for him on the beach where it pointed at Liz sitting on the chest..people will argue its the chest but it couldnt have been because it wasnt working for him at all throughout the entire movie and it suddenly works right there..nope I'm not buying that Disney. I mean its not as if they are making these hints so small. .they are actually pretty easy to spot. So yeah Jack would have gone back to save them anyway if Liz wasnt on that ship then the compass would have pointed to where she is. HE would have dont the good deed without even looking at it..He has done good deeds before that.
Liz was NOT a snooty rich girl..even in movie one she has a taste for adventure..as a child she even said "actually I find it all fascinating" her dad stamped that out in her as she grew up (or so he thought)
The taste wasnt as big as it was in this movie..She wanted adventure in movie one and Will quenched it just enough..if she was some snooty rich girl she would have ended up with norrington and completely looked down on Will.
In the second movie..Will is not enough for her..its clear because its actually on the screen in front of us..I'm not basing beliefs on blind faith..i'm basing my opinions on evidence..
Originally posted by blackpearl44
OK...........if your going to have this attitude.......then don't bother posting......nobody is going to agree with you.......because your just making up things to create an argument..........and nobody appreciates it......
Oh yeah that did sound a bit mean the way I put that. Sorry about it. But no. I am not making anything up. Everything I've typed has been exact and dead-on. I would never make anything up for the sake of a debate. I am staying away from fan-boyism (which is something you ladies might want to try, which in ur case would be fan-girlism.)
You girls are the ones saying that you "believe" Jack went to save Elizabeth mostly, and that you "believe" that Jack and Liz are destined.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL omg..to say she's not wanting to be a pirate means that you clearly dont understand whats going on in the film..You tell me one thing that suggests Liz isnt turning into a pirate in the latest movie?She was joking yes..but only with the last moment of the interview..That guy is known over here for making serious interviews with people but also giving them a light heated touch. Its how us brits do it.
Will disnt come back to get Jack to give to Davy..it was to come and stab the heart, kill davy and rescue his dad, so that would result in Will not giving Jack to Davy...again WHAT MOVIE were YOU watching?
Well to note. He looks at the the compass before going back..remember that the compass is not working for him throughout the movie and there it suddenly worked..It was pointing at Liz there. I say this because it also "suddenly worked" for him on the beach where it pointed at Liz sitting on the chest..people will argue its the chest but it couldnt have been because it wasnt working for him at all throughout the entire movie and it suddeny works right there..nope I'm not buying that Disney. I mean its not asif they are making these hinnts so small..they are actually pretty easy to spot. So yeh Jack would have gone back to save them anyway if Liz wasnt on that ship then the compass would have pointed to ehere she is. HE would have dont the good deed without even looking at it..He has done good deeds before that.
Liz was NOT a snooty rich girl..even in movie one she has a taste for adventure..as a child she even said "actually I find it all facisnating" her dad stamped that out in her as she grew up (or so he thought)
The taste wasnt as big as it was in this movie..She wanted adventure in movie one and Will quenched it just enough..if she was some snooty rich girl she would have ended up with norrington and completley looked down on Will.
In the second movie..Will is not enough for her..its clear because its actually on the screen in front of us..I'm not basing beliefs on blind faith..i'm basing my opinions on evidence..
Look I'm sorry that you are starting to get agitated. Really I am. However, I have been polite enough as to match my counter-arguements with your statements in quotes. Could you please do the same for me? I'm confused as to what you are addressing when you are saying things.
And ladies, please could you just read what everyone else is asking? I'd prefer not to re-state things again and again.
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Look I'm sorry that you are starting to get agitated. Really I am. However, I have been polite enough as to match my counter-arguements with your statements in quotes. Could you please do the same for me? I'm confused as to what you are addressing when you are saying things.And ladies, please could you just read what everyone else is asking? I'd prefer not to re-state things again and again.
Sorry. If I do that then it means I will exceed the word limit allowed on the page..its pretty much going in order of everything you said 🙂
I'm not getting agitated..I'm actually laughing at some of the things you are saying because it directly contradicts what the movie is clearly showing us.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Sorry. If I do that then it means I will exceed the word limit allowed on the page..its pretty much going in order of everything you said 🙂I'm not getting agitated..I'm actually laughing at some of the things you are saying.
Pretty Much? *sigh* you ladies are soooo troublesome.
Laughing? Surely you don't mean my arguements are "laughably stupid." I'm positive all of the stuff I'm saying makes sense.
And now: My rebuttle
Originally posted by LovelyOne
LOL omg..to say she's not wanting to be a pirate means that you clearly dont understand whats going on in the film..You tell me one thing that suggests Liz isnt turning into a pirate in the latest movie?
I said she didn't want to be a pirate? When? I said in the first movie she was scared of pirates, and was disappointed that Will was associated with one.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Will didn't come back to get Jack to give to Davy..it was to come and stab the heart, kill davy and rescue his dad, so that would result in Will not giving Jack to Davy...again WHAT MOVIE were YOU watching?
What are you talking about? I didn't say Will went to go get jack to give to davy. That doesn't even make sense. I don't even know what arguement you're talking about there. Could you elaborate further?
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Liz was NOT a snooty rich girl..even in movie one she has a taste for adventure..as a child she even said "actually I find it all fascinating" her dad stamped that out in her as she grew up (or so he thought)
*sigh* like I said before: This is the same girl that later on said "I was afraid you were a pirate! That would have been awful!"
Originally posted by LovelyOne
The taste wasnt as big as it was in this movie..She wanted adventure in movie one and Will quenched it just enough..if she was some snooty rich girl she would have ended up with norrington and completely looked down on Will.
Allright I didn't word that right. I didn't mean snooty rich girl. I meant snooty rich girl. That was in defense of my arguement with the expectations of her marrying Norrington - which no one has addressed.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
In the second movie..Will is not enough for her..its clear because its actually on the screen in front of us..I'm not basing beliefs on blind faith..i'm basing my opinions on evidence..
How is will not enough? Jack is hanging out on the boat. You said yourself you agreed with me that Will was more active than Jack in that movie. And instead of each and every one of you "saying" that there is evidence, be good debators and provide it.
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Pretty Much? *sigh* you ladies are soooo troublesome.Laughing? Surely you don't mean my arguements are "laughably stupid." I'm positive all of the stuff I'm saying makes sense.
Not laughably stupid..I just find it quite amusing that you seem to be missing whats really going on with the characters and filling in the blanks with aload of irrelevant stuff that didn't even happen in the movie..I know this because I have seen it about 10 times. I'm pretty confident that I know whats really going on ( not 100% because I haven't seen part 3 yet)..Film studies helped me in that department..
I guessed the Will/Davy similarity based on what I observed and understood about the story progression/plot and character development..only to be pleasantly surprised that I was proved right when looking at an interview with the director a few days after I sussed it out.
So believe me..I KNOW what I'm talking about most of the time. I don't mouth off on a theory based on little to no understanding of whats happening on screen and between the characters. Everything I say is backed up with pretty legit meanings. Where as what I see with you..is an attempt to understand whats really going on..and it just keeps drawing up blanks its not consistent with what the movie is trying to say.
Also when you say that she's scared of pirates... she's not scared of pirates. As a little girl she said that she liked the thought of it. And it becomes a little bit surpressed but you can see in movie one that she loved the adventure and felt a great deal of respect for Jack.
Also I think it silly to suggest that she is afraid of pirates in this movie..when the heck did that arise? I didnt ever see her showing a fear of being among them in the movie..if anthing she was enjoying being free like them. Even at the end she basically became seduced by becoming a pirate. Jack said she would. And she did.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Not laughably stupid..I just find it quite amusing that you seem to be missing whats really going on with the characters and filling in the blanks with aload of irrelevant stuff that didn't even happen in the movie..I know this because I have seen it about 10 times. I'm pretty confident that I know whats really going on ( not 100% because I haven't seen part 3 yet)..Film studies helped me in that department..
You aren't addressing the things that I am saying. I'm really trying not to get angry or irritated, but the only thing that you have used your film studies to slightly influence me was the whole "hat thing."
Do me a favor Ms. Sparrow. POINT OUT the irrelevant stuff that I say. SHOW me the weakness in my arguement instead of simply saying that it's weak.
You can't.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Everything I say is backed up with pretty legit meanings. Where as what I see with you..is an attempt to understand whats really going on..and it just keeps drawing up blanks its not consistent with what the movie is trying to say.
I'm sorry. I really don't want to be mean here, but I'm going to say the exact same thing about your own arguement. Whereas I pick exactly from your post, and pick out your weaknesses, you all simply just kinda keep saying the same stuff, hoping for different results. What "Blanks" am I drawing, and what is "Inconsistent."
Like I said before, your weakness in arguement is that you aren't pointing anything out, just saying that its there. It would be like if I were a teacher, correcting a test that you took and said "You got 3 wrong." you would obviously say "Which three?" But the way you are debating, I would respond "3 of them." And not elaborate.
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Also when you say that she's scared of pirates... she's not scared of pirates. As a little girl she said that she liked the thought of it. And it becomes a little bit surpressed but you can see in movie one that she loved the adventure and felt a great deal of respect for Jack.
I already said, she IS afraid of Pirates. At least at first. You said she called them fascinating...and then I counter-argued with (and AGAIN I have to repeat myself due to no one listening) "I was afraid you were a pirate, that would have been awful!" I'm sure she was scared shitless from the adventure, and I'm sure she is grateful for Jack in helping to save them. She at this point - Loves Will. 😄
Originally posted by LovelyOne
Also I think it silly to suggest that she is afraid of pirates in this movie..when the heck did that arise? I didnt ever see her showing a fear of being among them in the movie..if anthing she was enjoying being free like them. Even at the end she basically became seduced by becoming a pirate. Jack said she ould. And she did.
*sigh*
once again, you aren't paying attention to what I'm saying.
I'm saying she was afraid of pirates in movie one. I never said "In Dead Man's Chest she was scared of all the pirates!" She wasn't "seduced" by being a pirate. She chained Jack to save everyone else.
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
Pretty Much? *sigh* you ladies are soooo troublesome.Laughing? Surely you don't mean my arguements are "laughably stupid." I'm positive all of the stuff I'm saying makes sense.
Oh Quincy - you have made this all so much more interesting. I am laughing reading all this stuff. it'a all kind of funny isnt'- but I guess we will have to wait until next May to see who gets the last laugh. If you are right and Liz and Will do get together -then I guess I will forever be watching Pirates 2 over and over and fantasising what could have been.
Originally posted by Quincy Archer
You aren't addressing the things that I am saying. I'm really trying not to get angry or irritated, but the only thing that you have used your film studies to slightly influence me was the whole "hat thing."Do me a favor Ms. Sparrow. POINT OUT the irrelevant stuff that I say. SHOW me the weakness in my arguement instead of simply saying that it's weak.
You can't.
1/You say she is afraid of pirates..when the WHOLE movie was one massive hint that she is turning into one..even the blooming trailor and production posters hint it.
Characters dont stay the same as a story progresses..otherwise its not a story. Whats the point in telling a story if the characters dont develop? you tell me one story where a character doesn't develop and then I will believe what you say about her not liking pirates.
This is all the proof you need that she is turning into a pirate: THE ENDING SCENE was a result of everything she was craving to do from the moment Will left her in the cell..which was to do something selfish and bad and free spirited. like a pirate..
2. You seem to think that Will is better suited to what liz really wants when its clearly not the case. The whole point in this movie was to seperate them so that Liz would develop as a character, into a free spirited character. Also there is the proof that these two are not working out together. The director himself said in an interview that he is basically making Will and Liz relationship mirror what happened to Davy Jones and his fiance, Which was "davy lost his love who became wild and untamable as the sea" This movie has shown us that Liz's character has developed in a similar way. And yes she is becomeing something that Will didnt fall for.
I'm sorry. I really don't want to be mean here, but I'm going to say the exact same thing about your own arguement. Whereas I pick exactly from your post, and pick out your weaknesses, you all simply just kinda keep saying the same stuff, hoping for different results. What "Blanks" am I drawing, and what is "Inconsistent."Like I said before, your weakness in arguement is that you aren't pointing anything out, just saying that its there. It would be like if I were a teacher, correcting a test that you took and said "You got 3 wrong." you would obviously say "Which three?" But the way you are debating, I would respond "3 of them." And not elaborate.
OK please wait whilst i find each individual thing and explain what I mean.
Quincy - that's what being a pirate is all about - putting your own selfish needs before others. That's what she does when she chains him to the mast. She has become a pirate. Why else would they have Johnny DEpp whisper "Pirate." But remeber Jack isn't a typical pirate. That's why he lost the Black Pearl to Barboorsa - deep down inside he is a good man. At times he does things that are selfish and puts others at risk - but then, don't we all at times...And to say that LovelyOne or no one else, for that matter backs up their theories. You are so wrong. How many times must we point out all of the metaphors, symbolisms, conversations, innuendos, etc that go on for you to get that everything that happens in Pirates 2 is leading up to the Kiss and the underlying theme that Elizabeth has become a Pirate and her most deepest desire is Jack... Why would they emphazise the compass so much saying that "it points to what you most desire, what your heart wants most."? Kind of ironic, don't you think, after pointing that out - there are three times in the movie when Lizzie holds the compass it points to Jack. The reason she looks agitated is because she knows that she is attracted to Jack, she trying to surpress it because she knows she shouldn't have these feelings - so she is angry that the Compass is telling her the truth.
Like I said before, your weakness in arguement is that you aren't pointing anything out, just saying that its there. It would be like if I were a teacher, correcting a test that you took and said "You got 3 wrong." you would obviously say "Which three?" But the way you are debating, I would respond "3 of them." And not elaborate.
Wow.................just..................just wow...........