Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic
How can you racially insult a construction project? Using racist terms to describe them isn't an insult to the project, it's an insult to people who've been called tar babies in the past.
Originally posted by BackFire
So if I call a black person a sticky mud-hole, and some other people start adopting it as a racial slur in my area. Then someone in another part of the country used it in a different context and said "this is worse then being in a sticky mudhole", they'd be racist?of course they wouldn't, just because some people associate the term with racism doesn't mean the term can't be used properly in a non derogatory context. That's giving racists way to much power.
Let us examine the etymology of the word nig·ger. From the Latin word niger meaning "black," the word nig·ger is an adjective describing "various dark brown or black hues or objects."
By your reasoning, it would be perfectly acceptable for one to use the word nig·ger as an adjective despite the fact that it is now standard in its usage as "a prejorative term for a black person."
Pejorative...
I don't see how this phrase has a standard usage as a derogatory term, having never heard of it before. I don't see how this phrase has a standard usage at all, having never heard of it before. But the obscurity of the phrase would imply that in knowing the phrase, one would also know the derogatory racial connotations. So it depends on how much benefit of the doubt one is willing to afford.
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
Let us examine the etymology of the word nig·ger. From the Latin word niger meaning "black," the word nig·ger is an adjective describing "various dark brown or black hues or objects."By your reasoning, it would be perfectly acceptable for one to use the word nig·ger as an adjective despite the fact that it is now standard in its usage as "a prejorative term for a black person."
No, it wouldn't. Since at this time, that word is globally recognized as pretty much the main racial slur, and nothing but a racial slur. It's original meaning is long gone in the shadow of the infamy of it's now accepted, standard meaning.
Tar Baby has an actual, legit meaning that many people still recognize today as it's main definition, it can be used in a non racist manner.
Obvious difference here dude.
It seems by your reasoning any word that recognized by anyone should lose whatever meaning it has, and only be recognized as a racial slur.
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
having never heard of it before.
This apparently has as much meaning as I implied when I told the story from my childhood. I've not ever heard the story of teh inescapable situation as a synonym for "tar baby". But, then again, my grand father still refers to black people as niggers.
Originally posted by Quiero Mota
I thought "Fudge" was gonna imply a gay joke, not a Black joke. 😂
you forgot the 'packers' part. Then it would be a gay joke.
Originally posted by BackFire
globally recognized as pretty much the main racial slur, and nothing but a racial slur. It's original meaning is long gone
Originally posted by BackFire
Tar Baby has an actual, legit meaning that many people still recognize today
So, which is it? Commonly recognized or commonly considered?
Originally posted by BackFire
No, it wouldn't. Since at this time, that word is globally recognized as pretty much the main racial slur, and nothing but a racial slur. It's original meaning is long gone in the shadow of the infamy of it's now accepted, standard meaning.Tar Baby has an actual, legit meaning that many people still recognize today as it's main definition, it can be used in a non racist manner.
Obvious difference here dude.
It seems by your reasoning any word that recognized by anyone should lose whatever meaning it has, and only be recognized as a racial slur.
There is no difference. The actual definition of the word tar baby is "a human figure composed of tar that is used to trap Br'er Rabbit."
From this usage, it developed the colloquial meaning, "a situation or problem from which it is virtually impossible to disentangle oneself," and later the deprecatory meaning, "a derogatory term for a black person."
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I don't see how this phrase has a standard usage as a derogatory term, having never heard of it before. I don't see how this phrase has a standard usage at all, having never heard of it before. But the obscurity of the phrase would imply that in knowing the phrase, one would also know the derogatory racial connotations. So it depends on how much benefit of the doubt one is willing to afford.
Indeed. To quote Timothy L. Warner:
"Even at my tender preadolescent age I didn't need an adult to explain to me the racist implication of the phrase tar baby. The colloquial usage of tar baby to denote 'a sticky situation' was utterly lost on my back in the early to late 1970s, naturally. To be sure, I wonder now if the phrase even had that particular connotation at that time.
...Why in the world would a public figure, especially someone speaking for the President of the United States or someone running for the President's office, choose to use a phrase that is in any way associated with disparagement in general and racism in particular?"
Originally posted by xmarksthespotNot necessarily. Assuming he didn't look up the word and it's multiple meanings in the dictionary, he very well could've heard someone use it in the way he meant it, liked the phrase, and repeated it in that context.
But the obscurity of the phrase would imply that in knowing the phrase, one would also know the derogatory racial connotations. So it depends on how much benefit of the doubt one is willing to afford.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Either he didn't know about the phrases racial connotation when he said it or he said it in a non-racist way without thinking about its other meaning. The only other scenario would be that he's injecting subliminal racism into his speach about the big dig? Yeah, sorry, sounds a little far fetched.
Originally posted by BackFire
Well apparantly, now that the idea is perpetuated and in the open, they can no longer be used in their normal form. If racists adopt them it becomes racist for others to use them in their proper form.Mmmmmm pudding.....shit! Damn it!, I guess I'm a racist.
You are right. I have interpreted this situation incorrectly. Besaides, anyone who wants to toss his name in the hate for the nomination to the office of President would never have made such a statement.
You are right, and I was wrong.