Originally posted by Soujaboy
and Newjack, thedecider, and lft4ded. Were always on the same page? I wonder why that is? maybe it's because we give facts? 😄
Funny you should mention that, because you talk way more about the Hulk than the characters he's up against. And pretty much all of your claims are wrong or completely empty. So I guess all of you guys are wrong?
Originally posted by Dinalfos
If someone says the wrong thing or a debatable thing, I will correct this or provide my own opinion, respectively. Sounds quite normal to me.Or do you just want me to admit things that aren't true?
Well you've been admitting things that aren't true for the last couple of months, it's admitting things that are true that you've failed to do.
Originally posted by Dinalfos
Funny you should mention that, because you talk way more about the Hulk than the characters he's up against. And pretty much all of your claims are wrong or completely empty. So I guess all of you guys are wrong?
Another fanboy like statement. All the poster you debate with are wrong, but your right.
pfffft, only on the mind of a fanboy 🙄
Originally posted by Dalak
Some things piss him off more than others, others motivate him more so when he's not instantly able to do it it makes him angrier. That is the thing that make his vastly inferior low showing better than Superman's IMO That's why I like the character, but low showings are still low showings.Bloodlust alters that and gives him a very good reason to be angry and not hold back. Same with Superman, same with Flash, same with Juggernaut. That means the second the battle starts he is calm, but after that he's angry and getting angrier. He will know the enemy is there and coming for him, and the basics of them as given in common knowledge and the PIS of him losing to vastly inferior opponents like the Rhino and Spiderman is puffed away. The same thing happens with his opponent, but their anger doesn't boost their strength, and if it is their/Hulk's character to fight savagely then they will do so, they just do not fight incredibly stupidly unless it is in their character to do so (CIS). Then the Current Version factor comes in (For Hulk: Savage - Smarter/Growing Up) unless specifically noted.
That is the difference between the debates here and at some other places (CBR) compared to debates held elsewhere.
E: Going back to repost my old post on Hulk's Strength in teh Juggs thread since obviously I'll need to psot it again and I'm not re-typing it.
Dalak hear me out, seriously, I agree with you post 110%, I agree Hulk can go from zero to uber in a second if given the right motivation, I agree that a piss-offed hulk is hard to take down, but now hear me....
Hulks anger is still based off human levels, Human anger has limits, unless he was mindless, then Savage is going to have limits, Sorry its the truth. Therefore, however vast his strength is, it has a limit, this is true, His durability doesn't necessarily increase in response to his anger, so, people with limitless Strength, still can, and will KO the Hulk, albeit not kill him (due to his insane healing factor) but at least KO, unless he reverts back to banner then, well squash.
I mean, thats all I have to say.
Originally posted by Dalak
Some things piss him off more than others, others motivate him more so when he's not instantly able to do it it makes him angrier. That is the thing that make his vastly inferior low showing better than Superman's IMO That's why I like the character, but low showings are still low showings.Bloodlust alters that and gives him a very good reason to be angry and not hold back. Same with Superman, same with Flash, same with Juggernaut. That means the second the battle starts he is calm, but after that he's angry and getting angrier. He will know the enemy is there and coming for him, and the basics of them as given in common knowledge and the PIS of him losing to vastly inferior opponents like the Rhino and Spiderman is puffed away. The same thing happens with his opponent, but their anger doesn't boost their strength, and if it is their/Hulk's character to fight savagely then they will do so, they just do not fight incredibly stupidly unless it is in their character to do so (CIS). Then the Current Version factor comes in (For Hulk: Savage - Smarter/Growing Up) unless specifically noted.
That is the difference between the debates here and at some other places (CBR) compared to debates held elsewhere.
E: Going back to repost my old post on Hulk's Strength in teh Juggs thread since obviously I'll need to psot it again and I'm not re-typing it.
Ok I understand that the Hulk can become Celestial lv's im moments according to Accel, but answer me this. If the Hulk can get to such high lv's in seconds how does he constantly get bested by characters like Spider Man and Rhino. Now you could say these are low showings, but it's happened so many times that it can't be ignored in this debate. I guess what im trying to ask is, if Hulk can become so strong so fast why is he still bested?
*Sigh* This wont lead to anything good. MARK MY WORDS!!! *Enraged Smiley* 😛
I really don't think Hulk's durability is unlimited. Dinalfos had a good point, that if any strong guy's strength grew over time, his durability would also have to grow as the character's muscles couldn't take the amount of "punishment", but you need to realize that there are characters with superhuman strength, but no superhuman, or growing durability. Such as Shaw and Strong guy. (Besides, they don't really need super durability) Also, we're talking about comic books. not everything makes sense.
I don't really like the fact that this thread has turned to a: "OMG he iz da fanboy!!!11" - Argument. IMO Dinalfos isn't a fanboy, atleast what I've seen from this thread. Most of his points are valid nor does he act like a moron.
And, I certainly doubt Hulk's strength is "unlimited", he should have a limit like everything else, but I based my logic on something else than comic books. In a comic book, it could be possible, I'm just doubting it. It really hasn't been proved, nor obsoleted yet.
I hate the image of perfect characters, exactly why I don't belive in Hulk's unlimited strength nor that he's capable of increasing his strength leves from 100 to 10000000000000 in seconds. Or that his durability grows as fast as his strength.. I like to imagine him as a defeatable creature. *Cough* Not like Thor 🙂 *Cough*
Btw, this is me after some alcohol so...
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Dalak hear me out, seriously, I agree with you post 110%, I agree Hulk can go from zero to uber in a second if given the right motivation, I agree that a piss-offed hulk is hard to take down, but now hear me....Hulks anger is still based off human levels, Human anger has limits, unless he was mindless, then Savage is going to have limits, Sorry its the truth. Therefore, however vast his strength is, it has a limit, this is true, His durability doesn't necessarily increase in response to his anger, so, people with limitless Strength, still can, and will KO the Hulk, albeit not kill him (due to his insane healing factor) but at least KO, unless he reverts back to banner then, well squash.
I mean, thats all I have to say.
Okay, in reading this it seems I was wrong about MY Unlimited Durability claim too, since apparently I did, and I do have to say that I have "re-convinced myself" so to speak in this old post, before all the nastiness began.
I've also edited a typo or 2
Now I will yield that his Durability and Stamina might not increase at the same rate that his Strength does, but they are proven to increase along with it. And the ties between the Subconscious and Gamma mutation are easily posted if you doubt them.
Besides, for all we know Hulk could be using the rest of his brain (we only use 20%) to get angry, so that would put him far beyond humanity and could explain why when he gets angreier it stops him from thinking as well.
And it's just as valid as the "Rage Kills Mindless Hulk" theory. 🙂
Originally posted by Dalak
The Gamma mutated his body into a shapeshifter, but he's had the personalities latent and repressed in his head for decades. He's spend so long pushing that rage back and back that it's gained a sentience, and will of it's own. Rage it all it is, rage and power. That is the Hulk, and that's why I have no problem beliveing that he can gain unlimited rage. Still the Hulk is Banner, and Banner is the Hulk because they are the same person, just apparently opposites, Banner who represses and compresses his emotion and self, and the Hulk who expresses himself and amplifies his rage beyond anything else. He's even said that he can get as angry as he wanted fighting the enhanced Abomination. "You can get 10 times as strong and Hulk will get 10 times as angry!!" That is how he sees himself, that is all he is, so why shouldn't be be able to have an unlimited range of Rage, Strength, and Durability, since they all are interwoven.As I mentioned earlier, with the durability increase his body will not HAVE that upper limit as it keeps going up along with everything else. His body gets built up to handle his own strength as it increases.
His healing factor is also tied into that, as the angrier he is the quicker he heals, as evidenced after the Secret War when the Savage heals in an instant the break in Banner-Hulk's leg. Thus the angrier he is the more he can heal.
He can be overloaded by a vast enough force applied fast enough to be faster than his responding increase, but not many are able to produce that so he is written often below what he is capable of like Superman is. That is for the reason of writing a better story, hense PIS. That's why low showings don't really count for anyone, not just the Hulk.
You can say that Thor's previous losses to Hulk are low showings, but he still stood up to the Hulk and didn't get easily crushed so I'm more than inclined to disagree seeing the people he's able to manhandle. Agreed he's not using his abilities to their utmost, but the Hulk is a walking challenge to any person who bases their existance in thier Strength and fighting prowess. That's a big reason why Herc, Thing, Thor, and pretty much any other high-end brick go out of their way to get into slug-outs with the Hulk, though it's not the only reason of course.
Anyway that's enough for now. I hope I've been able to enlighten you 😉
Originally posted by Soujaboy
Ok I understand that the Hulk can become Celestial lv's im moments according to Accel, but answer me this. If the Hulk can get to such high lv's in seconds how does he constantly get bested by characters like Spider Man and Rhino. Now you could say these are low showings, but it's happened so many times that it can't be ignored in this debate. I guess what im trying to ask is, if Hulk can become so strong so fast why is he still bested?
Yes it can, HOw many low showing does Spidery have? They are ignored once he goes Bloodlusted and starts speedblitzing, as are Juggernauts, Supermans, Thors, Batmans, and everyones. If you want to start bringing Low Showings back in we'll never be able to debate rationally again.
Originally posted by Dalak
Okay, in reading this it seems I was wrong about MY Unlimited Durability claim too, since apparently I did, and I do have to say that I have "re-convinced myself" so to speak in this old post, before all the nastiness began.I've also edited a typo or 2
Now I will yield that his Durability and Stamina might not increase at the same rate that his Strength does, but they are proven to increase along with it. And the ties between the Subconscious and Gamma mutation are easily posted if you doubt them.
Besides, for all we know Hulk could be using the rest of his brain (we only use 20%) to get angry, so that would put him far beyond humanity and could explain why when he gets angreier it stops him from thinking as well.
And it's just as valid as the "Rage Kills Mindless Hulk" theory. 🙂
Thats fine, and that is a very good post, but that is your view still, and some of it is true, I will admit that his Strength does increase drastically depending on the situation, but the part where he uses more then 20% of his brain I have a few comments.
It could be more believed that telepaths use more then 20% of their brain, that makes more sense to me then hulk using the extra amount of his brain power for anger, nothing suggest Hulk can do this, It is a good point, however like I said nothing has proved it.
Now you could take Bannerless/Mindless Hulk and argue he uses 100% of his mind for rage, since their is nothing left but rage, but thats not the Hulk in debate is it? We are talking about Savage. Even still 100% is 100%, and 100% cannot become 115%, what does this mean, a limit........ahhhhhhhhh looks like we got somewhere.
His durability and stamina, even you admitted this does not increase as fast as his strength, now it does increase but not to the point when limitless force is applied he will just shake it off, remember 100% cannot become 115%.
His healing factor has shown to be crazy even when he is not-enraged, I don't think it applies to his anger as much as his strength, yet even still, blunt trauma can still jar/daze/and KO hulk. Overload of pain is still>>>Hulks Rage. Someone with limitless Strength (mystical in nature) could just as well bypass Hulks healing factor and KO him even when he is fully enraged. Mystical in nature>>>>Human Anger.
I have a little more to say but my boss is on my back, I SHALL RETURN.
Hmm well, don't really know what to ad to this thread don't really know why it's started either to be serious or to just bash on the character or to bash on the so called "Fanboy's", I mean the debate to say someone is a fanboy like some did the last few page's is kind of lame and silly because, don't we all like one character better than a other, so doesn't that make us a bit of a fanboy to that character we like best.
So doesn't that mean we are all a little bit fanboy's?????
I mean iff we wheren't nobody would post in the vs forum to defend a character
His durability does increase, maybe not like his strenght but do we really know that, just few weeks or maybe few months ago we know or atleast I know his ability to adapt also goes up wenn he's enrage or only works wenn he's enraged.
I also believe his Healing factor is much more important than his durability.
And sure there are Heavy hitters who can beat the hulk.
1. I say Juggernaut can increase strength through focus/will and you argue i dont have enough proof. I say i do and i realized i do its just that I piece the information together using logic. You refuse to use logic in that situation and do not piece the information together. "Gee maybe since Juggernaut always has the strength to do what he wants, even trion getting through to the trion dimension, maybe its because he gains the strength when he needs it."
2. When i said Hulk cannot fight for an eternity on adreniline, you say he can and show small feats of a maximum time of a few months. Now since i have a brain and logic i pieced to together to say maybe he can last forever. Even though it is never stated he can last an eternity.
3. I could have just used your logic to say "lack of proof" and say hulk dies of exaustion. So now i ask you hulk fans to use logic and realize that Juggernaut can increase strength through focus, otherwise the theory that Hulk dies of exaustion is still plausible because i will just use "Hulk" logic back on you.
4. Since this is bloodlust, both characters use what they have. Juggernaut uses his momentum sapping shield and when hulk comes in for a punch he is completely stopped. This gives Juggernaut an option of landing a solid punch to his face
5. When a boxer is hit with a good punch he becomes dazed and that is when the other boxer realizes its time to go all out. The first boxer can only defend and cannot even realize what is happening and eventually gets Koed in that position. I have seen this happen many times and basically it could happen to the Hulk when Juggernauts shield allows him to land a solid punch that rocks the Hulk. He cannot do anything because he would be dazed.
6. POSSIBLE ways juggernaut can win- BFR(uses shield to stop hulk then has time to get a good grip on him and toss him), Early KO, Later Ko after increasing strength enough to beat hulk.
I repeat these are POSSIBLE ways. Even if it is unlikely that they can happen, it is still plausible giving Juggernaut a slim majority.
Originally posted by Apolloknight
Thats fine, and that is a very good post, but that is [b]your view still, and some of it is true, I will admit that his Strength does increase drastically depending on the situation, but the part where he uses more then 20% of his brain I have a few comments.It could be more believed that telepaths use more then 20% of their brain, that makes more sense to me then hulk using the extra amount of his brain power for anger, nothing suggest Hulk can do this, It is a good point, however like I said nothing has proved it.
Now you could take Bannerless/Mindless Hulk and argue he uses 100% of his mind for rage, since their is nothing left but rage, but thats not the Hulk in debate is it? We are talking about Savage. Even still 100% is 100%, and 100% cannot become 115%, what does this mean, a limit........ahhhhhhhhh looks like we got somewhere.
His durability and stamina, even you admitted this does not increase as fast as his strength, now it does increase but not to the point when limitless force is applied he will just shake it off, remember 100% cannot become 115%.
His healing factor has shown to be crazy even when he is not-enraged, I don't think it applies to his anger as much as his strength, yet even still, blunt trauma can still jar/daze/and KO hulk. Overload of pain is still>>>Hulks Rage. Someone with limitless Strength (mystical in nature) could just as well bypass Hulks healing factor and KO him even when he is fully enraged. Mystical in nature>>>>Human Anger.
I have a little more to say but my boss is on my back, I SHALL RETURN. [/B]
Nice response, even if you are still using the flawed "Juggernaut is Limitless" argument. Cytorrak gives Juggs his Weekly/Monthly/Yearly/Millennial Allowance. Occasionally he'll give the kid his Credit Card but on the condition he has to do what Daddy says, though of course the kid runs away with it and Cytorrak has to cancel the card, but that's the way kids are these days 😄
But seriously,
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've perused an old friend's X-Men collection when I was younger, and I remember Xavier talk about the limitless powers of the mind (Possibly Human Mind) on more than one occasion. Mind you this is years ago, and I cold be wrong, but that would go to back up Hulk's Limitless Anger.
Regardless, It has been proven that Hulk's entire physiology has been changed, including the nervous system and Brain (Since they'd have to in order to withstand the forces put upon them and the direct shocks and Mental Attacks they've resisted, not to mention the capability's to perceive Ghosts/Astral Forms) and continues to alter as his rage increases (Ability to function in space with no air, fight off Mind Control, etc)
Gamma mutations have done stranger things, like with the Soul Man, one of the ones transformed in the Gamma Blast the Leader set off. He was a priest who had lost his faith but after the bomb he was able to emit an constant and seemingly eternal source of energy that the Leader was able to use to bring the dead back to life. Soul Man's presence also brought calm and peaceful feelings to those around him, and if I remember right Leader's entire colony up there in the Arctic was it's range.
I don't see why people can still doubt his anger but I guess I'll have to accept it. It would be so much easier if that Stan quote could be tracked down, but that'll have to fall to the person who brought it up. That doesn't mean I won't keep advocating Hulk's Anger though. 🙂
Anyway, I gotta do some Lawn Work. TTYL