Lord Chaos,Master Order & Vishanti vs DC Universe
Who wins. The Marvel Cosmics have 3 days of prep
Lord Chaos- http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/cosmic_entities_marvel/lord_chaos.html
Master Order- http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/cosmic_entities_marvel/master_order.html
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The Vishanti- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishanti
Re: Lord Chaos,Master Order & Vishanti vs DC Universe
Originally posted by golem370
Who wins. The Marvel Cosmics have 3 days of prepLord Chaos- http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/cosmic_entities_marvel/lord_chaos.html
Master Order- http://www.knightmare6.com/faq/cosmic_entities_marvel/master_order.html
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The Vishanti- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vishanti
Well, I guess it is back to matching a character/set of characters against an entire Universe (in your case usually some Marvel character/s against the DCU).
It's been some time since I said this, but just to reiterate:
The Marvel universe and the DC universe are analogues of one another. While there are many differences at the micro level as well as various other strata, all these differences are totally negated at the Macro level. Here (when you take everything into account) all is equal, in that the Marvel universe is equal to the DC universe and vice-versa.
In essence, both universes cancel each other out at the macro level, thus there would be no winner between a MU vs DCU contest. In a nutshell, they are equal.
Thus it is absolutely ridiculous for someone to match a character or couple of characters from one universe (in this case several very powerful characters from Marvel) against an ENTIRE universe (in this case, like most cases when it comes to you, the DC universe). It just doesn't gel!
The Marvel guys will lose (100% loss factor), and it would be the same case if it was a couple of DC guys against the ENTIRE Marvel universe.
A good rule of thumb is this: If you know that your characters cannot destroy the ENTIRE Marvel universe, then you can rest assured that hopping over to DC will not be successful.
Same thing with DC characters - if a sun-soaked Superman cannot destroy the DCU (or even come close to it), then setting up a thread pitting him against the entire MU is in vain.
Anyways, Lord Chaos, Master Order and the various members of the Vishanti are powerful deities. They can whip apart a planet like I would whip milkshake.
However can they take on the entire Marvel Universe and win? The answer is no - someone or something would come along and stop them in their tracks.
THUS, if they went over to DC they would meet with the same fate. They would do some damage, and then some character would come along and send them back to the MU packing.
Re: Re: Lord Chaos,Master Order & Vishanti vs DC Universe
Originally posted by spetznazSpetz, almost always on point and elaborate.
Well, I guess it is back to matching a character/set of characters against an entire Universe (in your case usually some Marvel character/s against the DCU).
It's been some time since I said this, but just to reiterate:The Marvel universe and the DC universe are analogues of one another. While there are many differences at the micro level as well as various other strata, all these differences are totally negated at the Macro level. Here (when you take everything into account) all is equal, in that the Marvel universe is equal to the DC universe and vice-versa.
In essence, both universes cancel each other out at the macro level, thus there would be no winner between a MU vs DCU contest. In a nutshell, they are equal.Thus it is absolutely ridiculous for someone to match a character or couple of characters from one universe (in this case several very powerful characters from Marvel) against an ENTIRE universe (in this case, like most cases when it comes to you, the DC universe). It just doesn't gel!
The Marvel guys will lose (100% loss factor), and it would be the same case if it was a couple of DC guys against the ENTIRE Marvel universe.A good rule of thumb is this: If you know that your characters cannot destroy the ENTIRE Marvel universe, then you can rest assured that hopping over to DC will not be successful.
Same thing with DC characters - if a sun-soaked Superman cannot destroy the DCU (or even come close to it), then setting up a thread pitting him against the entire MU is in vain.Anyways, Lord Chaos, Master Order and the various members of the Vishanti are powerful deities. They can whip apart a planet like I would whip milkshake.
However can they take on the entire Marvel Universe and win? The answer is no - someone or something would come along and stop them in their tracks.
THUS, if they went over to DC they would meet with the same fate. They would do some damage, and then some character would come along and send them back to the MU packing.
Originally posted by golem370
but these characters are uber powerful and have 3 days of prep IMO i belief they would destroy the universe
The thing is this Golem, can they destroy the MARVEL universe? If a character or set of characters from Marvel cannot destroy their own universe (I am not talking about bashing a planet sideways, juggling asteroids, or wiping out a solar system or three - I mean universe-scale gehenna!) , then they definitely wouldn't destroy the ENTIRE DCU.
And the inverse is also true - if a character/s from the DCU cannot take down their native universe, then they cannot stand a chance against the ENTIRE Marvel universe.
That is pretty simple logic. On a macro level the DCU=MU.
Now, the characters have prep. 3 days worth. They are uber powerful (actually I'd say more than uber - uber is someone like Mr Majestic when he decides to go 'cosmic' and move planets and stuff). They are the bomb.
However they are taking an entire universe that has loads of other characters who are as badass as they are - and since it is a WHOLE universe there are far more than the guys you put there.
Question: Let's say there is a matchup between 12 Navy SEALs, and the ENTIRE ARMED FORCES OF THE WORLD (from other SEALs- since only 12 SEALs are in the opposing team - to Delta Force to SAS to Sayeret to Spetsnaz to even the rag-tag Somali militia with their decrepit old weapons all the way to boyscouts with slingshots ...and then add to this ALL of the regular armed forces, meaning US Army, US Navy, USAF, US Marines, British Army, Zambian Army, Swiss Army, Cambodian Regulars, Tanzanian Recruits, French regulars and Foreign Legion, Belgian mercenaries, Kenyan mountain rangers, etc etc etc etc .....ALL the armed forces of the world)!
Would the SEALs win?
Heck no .....I don't care how well trained they are, they are simply overwhelmed (and overwhelmed also by other soldiers that are just as well trained as they are, including fellow SEALs who are not part of the 12 - scratch the Somali militia and boyscouts).
It is truly illogical to imagine a company of a few can take on an entire universe.
So illogical that it simply shows that you have a very fervent anti-DC/pro-Marvel bias, or (if that is not the case) you are extremely illogical in your thought patterns (I believe the former to be the case, and that you simply adore Marvel so much that it blinds you to certain logical aspects).
As Juntai said, you do make some good threads every now and then (and in my opinion you are one of the more important posters at KMC since you do put a lot of effort to many threads you make. For example in this thread you even put links to the various characters. So don't think I'm after you or anything - I admire the effort you put, and that is the truth).
HOWEVER, next time you put links for the characters from Marvel who will be 'defeating' the DCU, PLEASE TRY TO ALSO PUT LINKS FOR EVERY SINGLE DARN CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE DC UNIVERSE!!
See how long that takes you, and how many characters there are, and the power scale you are looking at. Every one from the Source Of All (basically DC God) all the way to some kid whose power is making large spitballs!
And then tell me how your Marvel characters (even with 3 days prep time ---goodness, 3 DAYS - even Batman , Richard Reed, and Dr.Doom couldn't whip up a sundae in 3 days and they are the gods of prep) are supposed to defeat an ENTIRE UNIVERSE.
No disrespect Golem, but your 'character X vs DC universe' threads are your achilles heel. Get rid of them and it would be very hard pinning anything on you.
Galactus a Key component in the Marvel Universe couldn't destroy one Vishanti and there are 3 of them. Lord Chaos and Master Order make characters close in pure might as Galactus. Dr Strange and Dormammu with prep has gone toe to toe with Eternity the aspect of Marvels Universe. and The Vishanti are way more powerful then those two. There is many different things could happen Lord Chaos and Master Order could have help from In-betweener and They could maybe combine the IG or the HOTU. If Thanos can combine the Gems I am sure Lord Chaos and Master Order and the Vishanti could combine them. I don't know but These characters are Vastly power cosmics and they have Godlike Intelligence I am sure with 3 days could do tons of damage.
Originally posted by golem370
Galactus a Key component in the Marvel Universe couldn't destroy one Vishanti and there are 3 of them. Lord Chaos and Master Order make characters close in pure might as Galactus. Dr Strange and Dormammu with prep has gone toe to toe with Eternity the aspect of Marvels Universe. and The Vishanti are way more powerful then those two. There is many different things could happen Lord Chaos and Master Order could have help from In-betweener and They could maybe combine the IG or the HOTU. If Thanos can combine the Gems I am sure Lord Chaos and Master Order and the Vishanti could combine them. I don't know but These characters are Vastly power cosmics and they have Godlike Intelligence I am sure with 3 days could do tons of damage.
Your so far off base. The ALE and THe Spectre and Mr. Mxy would play Kick ball with your guys. Order and Chaos mean nothing to Mxy or the ALE. ANd the spectre can beat the vishanti all on his own. NOw let's not forget all the other cosmic beings in DCU who rarely make appearances, but none the less are there.
Originally posted by golem370
Galactus a Key component in the Marvel Universe couldn't destroy one Vishanti and there are 3 of them. Lord Chaos and Master Order make characters close in pure might as Galactus. Dr Strange and Dormammu with prep has gone toe to toe with Eternity the aspect of Marvels Universe. and The Vishanti are way more powerful then those two. There is many different things could happen Lord Chaos and Master Order could have help from In-betweener and They could maybe combine the IG or the HOTU. If Thanos can combine the Gems I am sure Lord Chaos and Master Order and the Vishanti could combine them. I don't know but These characters are Vastly power cosmics and they have Godlike Intelligence I am sure with 3 days could do tons of damage.
Let me firs include the following part of my argument to you where I asked you the following question:
Question: Let's say there is a matchup between 12 Navy SEALs, and the ENTIRE ARMED FORCES OF THE WORLD (from other SEALs- since only 12 SEALs are in the opposing team - to Delta Force to SAS to Sayeret to Spetsnaz to even the rag-tag Somali militia with their decrepit old weapons all the way to boyscouts with slingshots ...and then add to this ALL of the regular armed forces, meaning US Army, US Navy, USAF, US Marines, British Army, Zambian Army, Swiss Army, Cambodian Regulars, Tanzanian Recruits, French regulars and Foreign Legion, Belgian mercenaries, Kenyan mountain rangers, etc etc etc etc .....ALL the armed forces of the world)!
Would the SEALs win?
Alright, I asked you that.
Now, you post where you say all the permutations and probabilities that your characters could use to defeat a universe.
An entire universe.
Now, let me go back to the whole army array analogy I used and expand it.
Let's say the 12 Navy SEALs have the knowhow and ability to build a tactical nuclear weapon. Thus they are now basically in possession of nuclear technology.
That makes them the cat's miaow huh?
BUT WAIT A MINUTE ......the rest of the world's military also has the ability (for example the Americans, Russians, Britons, French, Israeli, Indians, and Pakistanis all have nuclear weaponry, and nations like South Africa used to before they destroyed their arsenal, but they can re-build them if they wanted, and nations like Japan have the potential to be nuclear within a year. And then there are nations like North Korea and Iran that are either working on nuclear weapons, or already have one or two secret ones hidden).
Now, what does that do to the 12 Navy SEALs' tactical nuke ......make it have far less efficacy than it did, because anything the 12 can do to the world the world can do FAR worse to it.
To your characters.
Sure, they can whip up a good plate of 'nasty.'
Sure, they can do a lot.
Sure, they have the knowhow and the ability.
BUT, the other guys in the ENTIRE universe are not just sitting there waiting for someone to combine the IG and do a dance on their grave! They would also do their own stuff (by the way, the IG is GREAT, but having it doesn't mean you have carte blanche over eevrything in ANY universe. It makes you above the gods, but even Thanos was taken down. Same thing with DC's Parallax - even he was taken down).
Once again, your guys cannot take down an entire universe.
BTW: Had I made a thread that asked if the DC Lord's of Order and Chaos (analogues of the Vishanti, who were basically annihilated by the SPectre solo) could take on the entire Marvel universe, I WOULD BET HARD CASH that one of the people who would cry 'bull' would be YOU.
What if I said that the DC Lords of Chaos and Order had access to all of the power in the GReen Lantern battery, as well as access to the Source, and the Anti-Life Equation? And under the tutelage of Lord Nabu (their greatest member) they had a whole THREE DAYS of prep to take down the Marvel universe (imagine what they could do in THREE DAYS !!!!!!!!! Yikes, 3/7 ths of a week. Goodness!)
Even then YOU would cry 'bull.'
Yet we are to believe some characters from Marvel can take down the DCU after 3 days of prep!
I call bull, and the 'b' in bull stands for bias!
Once Thanos got IG he was unhappy and alowed The Gauntlet to be taken from him.With somebody as powerful as these characters they could combine the gem in minutes. Then they would truly be Omniscient. There is alot of possibilities with the prep they have. With the IG they could control reality Space Time Power and they could use the lesser Cosmics like Galactus,Stranger,Ego,Death,Celestials etc etc in a wave of minions against DC. Each vastly powerful enities to do alot of his dirty work and then after they were defeated they come in IMO take over
Originally posted by golem370
Once Thanos got IG he was unhappy and alowed The Gauntlet to be taken from him.With somebody as powerful as these characters they could combine the gem in minutes. Then they would truly be Omniscient. There is alot of possibilities with the prep they have. With the IG they could control reality Space Time Power and they could use the lesser Cosmics like Galactus,Stranger,Ego,Death,Celestials etc etc in a wave of minions against DC. Each vastly powerful enities to do alot of his dirty work and then after they were defeated they come in IMO take over
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Originally posted by golem370
I could say that for everybody saying they don't have a chance against DC
Well, you could.
You could also say the moon is made out of cheese and that one can truly find leprechaun gold at the end of the rainbow.
However that still doesn't erase the obvious bias (either pro-Marvel, anti-Dc, or both), or for that matter that lack of logical consistency in your 'Marvel character X versus DCU' threads.
For instance I remember a thread several months back when you had some obscure Marvel character (this was when you were copying and pasting obscure Marvel guys from some website that had pages of links to such characters in Marvel), and then put that character against the DCU.
I did SOME research on that character, and found out that he had been defeated in the Marvel universe by Magik and Nightcrawler (Nightcrawler ....mr 'poof' and I have a forked tail and smell bad when i teleport).
Yet you had pitted that character against an entire universe.
Anyways, it is true that you can say the same about those who say (your) characters don't have a chance against the DCU (and for that matter I am one of those who call bull on your statement), but you are forgetting one aspect.
You have to SHOW (and I mean viably/logically/lucidly show) just HOW your characters could bring down an ENTIRE universe that has characters that are just AS powerful as them, and others that are MORE powerful than them.
YOu have the mandate to show how (and more importantly, especially in your case, logically show how).
Otherwise you are just spewing nonsense.
It would be like me going down the street, pointing out some person to the cops, and saying that person slashed my tires.
I have to give evidence.
And if you come along and say my story is BS then it would be up to me to who WHY it is not BS. I have to give logical proof.
Oh ...and one more thing. The last part of my prior post:
BTW: Had I made a thread that asked if the DC Lord's of Order and Chaos (analogues of the Vishanti, who were basically annihilated by the SPectre solo) could take on the entire Marvel universe, I WOULD BET HARD CASH that one of the people who would cry 'bull' would be YOU.
What if I said that the DC Lords of Chaos and Order had access to all of the power in the GReen Lantern battery, as well as access to the Source, and the Anti-Life Equation? And under the tutelage of Lord Nabu (their greatest member) they had a whole THREE DAYS of prep to take down the Marvel universe (imagine what they could do in THREE DAYS !!!!!!!!! Yikes, 3/7 ths of a week. Goodness!)
Even then YOU would cry 'bull.'
Yet we are to believe some characters from Marvel can take down the DCU after 3 days of prep!
I still call bull with 'b' in bull standing for bias, because I know if I made such a thread you would say it couldn't happen. They couldn't defeat the ENTIRE Marvel universe. That some marvel character (maybe Dr.Strange etc etc ....maybe even Captain America with a , cough cough, 'power gem' ....or who knows, maybe even NIGHTCRAWLER - after all he defeated a character that you basically thought could take on the entire DCU - might be able to stop them).
I might even ask if the above DC guys could take on the MU if they also had all of the 5th dimension Imps (Bat mite, Mr Myxzp... etc etc) backing them up, and you'd still probably say nada.
Yet a smattering of Marvel Universe characters are supposed to rout the entire DCU.
Comeon!