Anyways, I do see where you're coming from Nupey-boy. It's becoming less and less of a rarity these days that I eventually can end up proving the opponent's position better than they can.
What I'm saying is that if you do want your little "theory" explained correctly and logically, you should ask me because I now understand what you're saying, however, your lack of elaboration and logical statement "limits" you from proving your case. Obviously you need a professional to handle this job.
I bet I can make a case that will prove your case better than your own case! Makes sense? Didn't think so.
Damn time limits. Anyways, Nupey-boy, I'm going to be your teacher. So, lesson #1:
We start with a question - by this statement...
Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
I read an article in Rollingstone (online) in which GL was interviewed and stated that Vader (in the suit), 80% of Sidious' power, was about equal to Dooku because of his defeat on Mustafar.
...are you acknowledging the fact Lucas says this, and that it means he's 80% due to the fact he lost limbs? I'm giving you a chance to redeem your argument, and show some signs of hope.
Originally posted by Advent
Obviously the point flew over your thick head.[/B]
lol I'm inclined to just call you a stupid b***h and leave it at that, but I enjoy a good argument every bit as much as you obviously do. With that in mind, I'll make an attempt to penetrate your thick durasteel cranium holding your pea brain.
Holding him back from what? He'll never be as powerful as Sidious, he'll never reach his full potential. Correct me if I'm wrong here (I'm not, so don't worry), but his little "psychological" limitations didn't stop him from killing four Jedi (two Masters, one Knight, one padawan) one month after he got put into the suit.
Let me say for the record that I'm not implying that Vader was as powerful as Sidious or ever would be. Otherwise, he would have turned on him sooner than he did. I'm not making an attempt to quantify Vader's/Anakin's "potential." Also, it's obvious that we've both read Dark Lord: the Rise of Darth Vader, and it's obvious that we both got some different things from the story. Perhaps the problem is that I've minimized his "physical limitations," but, (to put my own twist on your great revelation) Vader's little "PHYSICAL" limitations didn't stop him from killing four Jedi (two Masters, one Knight, one padawan) one month after he got put into the suit.
"Holding him back from what?"
As I already said:
But I still don't think those really "limit," or hinder him in defeating an opponent, as he still gets the job done.
Have you noticed that we're not really disagreeing so much as insulting each other? The difference is that I've been big enough to admit that my opinion doesn't carry as much weight as the quote you provided from the book. Further, I was also willing to acknowledge some of the valid points you made. You, on the other hand, seem to be only capable of hurling insults in attempts to make yourself appear to be some omniscient SW guru who happens to be the only one on the planet who has an opinion worth having. Of course, you weren't disagreeing with me. You couldn't. And by the same token, I can't disagree with you, either. We're both right, and we've both provided the evidence that supports our opinions! Imagine that! Tell you what, though: since we're both right, and you're the "senior member" on this forum, I'll take your side as your apprentice. Probably not, because after reading several of your posts in other threads (many of which were very good and informative!), you strike me as one who can't stand to be equally right, wrong, or bested. 😛
In all seriousness, all insults aside, I won't minimize Vader's physical limitations, and you don't have to minimize his psychological limitations. I'll agree to disagree without being disagreeable (even though there's nothing on which to disagree in this thread.) In the end, Vader's limitations are physical, psychological, and with the Force. If we don't understand each other by now, then "oh well."
Ok.. for the record: disregard some of the insults I threw at you, because I posted before I read your last few posts. lol.
Still:
...are you acknowledging the fact Lucas says this, and that it means he's 80% due to the fact he lost limbs? I'm giving you a chance to redeem your argument, and show some signs of hope.
I'm acknowledging that GL "said it in an interview," not that I buy into it. Lucas has contradicted himself a time or two before, so I'll take what he says in an interview with a grain of salt. Next question, teacher? lol
Originally posted by Nupe Kill Droma
lol I'm inclined to just call you a stupid b***h and leave it at that,
And I'm inclined to just tell you to "do it". Call me a "stupid b*tch". I love it when you talk dirty.
but I enjoy a good argument every bit as much as you obviously do.
No, I actually hate arguing. I tried to retire. My title is "Retired Debater". Obviously I cannot rest in peace due to some comments made.
With that in mind, I'll make an attempt to penetrate your thick durasteel cranium holding your pea brain.
"Thick cranium"? Wow, did you just put a little variation on what I said? Brilliant, Nupester. Perhaps you need to get your spectacles examined, I mean it's not as if I nearly just said the same thing to you.
So, for that insult, since it lacks creativity, originality, and I just said basically the core of it, I'm giving you a D -.
Have you noticed that we're not really disagreeing so much as insulting each other?
You mean you attempting to insult, right?
The difference is that I've been big enough to admit that my opinion doesn't carry as much weight as the quote you provided from the book. Further, I was also willing to acknowledge some of the valid points you made. You, on the other hand, seem to be only capable of hurling insults in attempts to make yourself appear to be some omniscient SW guru who happens to be the only one on the planet who has an opinion worth having.
No, no. Lucas' opinion matters, too.
"And the rest is mere history."
I'm acknowledging that GL "said it in an interview," not that I buy into it. Lucas has contradicted himself a time or two before, so I'll take what he says in an interview with a grain of salt. Next question, teacher? lol
Actually, I don't even know what I'm talking about anymore. I'm tired as hell, hence why I'm acting odd. In any case, forget what I just edited out. We can agree to disagree, since it's clearly just going to be a back and forth argument that lasts infinity.
So, for that insult, since it lacks creativity, originality, and I just said basically the core of it, I'm giving you a D -.
I must say that I feel honored to be having a back-and-forth with the person who created the insult "thick skull" and all variations thereof! Hardly...
In any case, I'm glad that we can at least agree on one thing: to disagree.
Perhaps we should venture to other threads and verbally smack some people around?
lmao And by the way: If you would like it if I called you a "stupid b***h," just imagine if... bah... I won't go there... lmao! 😄
I'll see you on another thread! Hit me with a reply and let's be done with this one, shall we? 😆
After reading through both Nupe's and Advent's posts - seriously funny reading BTW - I would have to say that I can agree with both sides.
I can accept that Vader has a great deal of Limitation placed on him Psychologically due to the loss of limbs, being on life support, and stuck in a suit. This is backed up by Advent's argument regarding paralysis and wheelchairs. It can be very difficult to mentally overcome this situation to be able to enjoy life again, rather than mourn the loss of what was.
I also accept that the loss of limbs curtailed Vader's potential as he was no longer able to have as strong a connection to the force. His midi-chlorian count while 9 years old was over 20000. Take into account he was 9 years old and a small boy at that time. Then move to fully grown teenage male and he (possibly) would have doubled that figure as he doubled in size. Then remove around 20 - 25% of his actual body. Both arms and legs, reduce the remainder of his flesh to a burn scarred husk, and guaranteed that he would have suffered a massive reduction.
Yet, the question I have is this, If at 9 years old he was over 20000 and more powerful (admittedly untrained and unaware at this time) than Yoda already. Then when adult and a much larger body mass and cell count. Then logically, (and here will be where Advent tears me apart) would he not still be more powerful than either Yoda or Sidious as neither of them had as high a count as he did at only 9 years old. As even after the accident he still retained that much body mass as he did at 9 years of age.
I think you have a very valid question, and I think this is one of the problems that GL has created for us... Still, just to clarify (though I haven't seen Episode 1 in a minute lol), Anakin isn't necessarily more powerful than Yoda; he just has a higher midichlorian count. To me, GL probably didn't think this whole "midichlorian" thing through all the way, and the whole purpose of it was simply to quantify Anakin's Force "potential" in Episode 1 and to give the viewer an idea of how powerful this little boy could become. I'd be interested to hear GL state whether or not Vader's midichlorian count was lower than the child Anakin (who already has a higher count than Yoda), simply because even with the loss of limbs Vader has more organic mass than the boy Anakin...
But in using the midichlorians to quantify Anakins "Potential" and stating that at 9 years of age that he was already "Potentially" far beyond Yoda, then it seems only "Logical" that even with the loss of limbs that he should still have been far in excess of Sidious.
We can only hope that GL decides to actually make a little bit more sense out of this mess.
Originally posted by Jen'ari
Nupe Kill Droma = pwnt.
huh?
I think you missed the point, friend. Archangelysses and I are on the same page here, and are in agreement. I was inclined to call Advent something earlier, but now I think you merit it. Stupid b***h... /backhand slap to Jen'ari
Shut up when grown folk are talking.