Originally posted by Mindset
Rose deserves it more, and I'm a Lakers fan.
Compelling argument.
How does Rose deserve it over Kobe? Looks like the media has gotten to you too.
Originally posted by HaSon
Kobe doesn't have an MVP argument. Take another Finals MVP and be happy dammit.
Right. The player who has lead his team to the 2nd best record doesn't have an MVP argument. Makes so much sense.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
Right. The player who has lead his team to the 2nd best record doesn't have an MVP argument. Makes so much sense.
Originally posted by Smasandian
Guys, Lord Evo is a Kobe fanboy. Always has been.
I love it how no one can tell me why Kobe isn't the MVP.
Originally posted by Mindset
How does kobe deserve it more?
Because he's more valuable to his team. He's lead the Lakers to 3 straight finals and 2 straight championships, that alone shows he's the most valuable and the best player in the league. But this season, he has lead the Lakers to a 53-20 record with 8 fingers, one knee and a bum ankle.
He's averaging 25, 5 and 5 on 45% shooting.
Rose is just the shiny new toy. If anything, the key to the Bull's success has been their defense, which is credited it to Tom Thibodeau, whose teams always have one of the top defenses(Rockets, Celtics, Bulls).
I've yet to hear a compelling case for Rose over Kobe for MVP.
Originally posted by HaSon
If your argument for Kobe is that his team is tied with the Bulls for the 2nd best record, then you should be in favor of Derrick. His sidekick isn't half as good as Pau Gasol.
My argument for Kobe is his body of work. He's been doing it for longer and has 5 championships, including 2 straight. He's doing it AGAIN this season. He's putting up the numbers and has the Lakers at the top again, even with his injuries piling up. No way should Rose in just his 3rd season have as many MVP awards as Kobe. Chicago is where they are at because of Tom Thibodeau's defense that he brought over from Boston. Much respect to Rose and what he's doing, but he's not the MVP of the league. And until a compelling case for Rose over Kobe for MVP is made, I'm just gonna assume it's media brainwashing. They've already crowned Rose the MVP, and everyone is buying into it.
Kobe's body of work shouldn't enter the equation on whether he's the MVP of this season. It's Most Valuable Player of 2010-2011, not Most Valuable of 2008-2011.
The reason why Rose should be MVP is he has the Bulls with the best record in the east and 2nd overall with lesser talent surrounding him than Kobe has. He's been steady all season and has kept the Bulls competitive even though both Noah and Boozer has missed significant time.
The Lakers don't need Kobe to play great to win (As we saw in gm 7 against Boston when he shot 6-24), the Bulls need Rose to and he has. The Lakers can play through Bynum, Gasol, Odom and get good shots, the Bulls really only have Boozer & Deng who can create their own shots.
Originally posted by Stall_19
Kobe's body of work shouldn't enter the equation on whether he's the MVP of this season. It's Most Valuable Player of 2010-2011, not Most Valuable of 2008-2011.
As a matter of fact, it should. Kobe's body of work proves that he's the best player in the game. It proves that he's the most valuable in league. There is nothing more valuable than leading your team to championships. This is the same Lakers team that has won the past two seasons. What has Rose proven exactly? He's a 3rd year player and is nowhere near as valuable as Kobe. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.
Your line of thinking is asinine. Why on Earth would the seasons before this one not be relevant? The Lakers are at the top just as they have been. What all that proves is that despite only winning one MVP in his entire career, Kobe has proved time and time again that he's the most valuable player.
The reason why Rose should be MVP is he has the Bulls with the best record in the east and 2nd overall with lesser talent surrounding him than Kobe has.
This argument is so weak. The Bulls have talent on that team. Deng, Noah, Boozer, Gibson. And that's not even the end of it. They have the best team defense in the league and that's why they are where they are.
Rose can prove he's the MVP when it matters, in the playoffs. That's what Kobe has done. Until he does that, he's not even close to being as valuable as a 5 time champion looking to achieve the second 3peat of his career.
It's so funny how people can never learn their lesson. LeBron the MVP the past two seasons? His team failed to even make it to the Finals. Dirk, Nash? Are you kidding me? And now it's going to be Rose? The MVP use to mean something. It's losing more and more credibility as time goes on. But what can you expect when you have networks like ESPN, aka The Hype Machine. You have been brainwashed. People are not even taking any looks at any other candidates because the media has already crowned Rose.
Rose is not a better player than Kobe. He's not more valuable than Kobe. He's not a proven vet like Kobe. He has not had a better season than Kobe. His team isn't even ahead of the Lakers in the standings. But yet, somehow, someway, he's the most valuable player? Spare me your bull shit.
There is no valid argument that pits Rose as being more valuable than Kobe. It's laughable that I have to sit here and make a case for a 5 time champion(2 time defending), over a 3rd year unproven player that hasn't been out of the 1st round of the playoffs.
Tom Thibodeau comes and makes the Bulls the top defense, and now all of a sudden Rose is more valuable than Kobe? Bulllllll Shit.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
As a matter of fact, it should. Kobe's body of work proves that he's the best player in the game. It proves that he's the most valuable in league. There is nothing more valuable than leading your team to championships. This is the same Lakers team that has won the past two seasons. What has Rose proven exactly? He's a 3rd year player and is nowhere near as valuable as Kobe. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.Your line of thinking is asinine. Why on Earth would the seasons before this one not be relevant? The Lakers are at the top just as they have been. What all that proves is that despite only winning one MVP in his entire career, Kobe has proved time and time again that he's the most valuable player.
This argument is so weak. The Bulls have talent on that team. Deng, Noah, Boozer, Gibson. And that's not even the end of it. They have the best team defense in the league and that's why they are where they are.
Rose can prove he's the MVP when it matters, in the playoffs. That's what Kobe has done. Until he does that, he's not even close to being as valuable as a 5 time champion looking to achieve the second 3peat of his career.
It's so funny how people can never learn their lesson. LeBron the MVP the past two seasons? His team failed to even make it to the Finals. Dirk, Nash? Are you kidding me? And now it's going to be Rose? The MVP use to mean something. It's losing more and more credibility as time goes on. But what can you expect when you have networks like ESPN, aka The Hype Machine. You have been brainwashed. People are not even taking any looks at any other candidates because the media has already crowned Rose.
Rose is not a better player than Kobe. He's not more valuable than Kobe. He's not a proven vet like Kobe. He has not had a better season than Kobe. His team isn't even ahead of the Lakers in the standings. But yet, somehow, someway, he's the most valuable player? Spare me your bull shit.
There is no valid argument that pits Rose as being more valuable than Kobe. It's laughable that I have to sit here and make a case for a 5 time champion(2 time defending), over a 3rd year unproven player that hasn't been out of the 1st round of the playoffs.
Tom Thibodeau comes and makes the Bulls the top defense, and now all of a sudden Rose is more valuable than Kobe? Bulllllll Shit.
No my thinking is not asinine. This year's MVP will go to player who was most valuable to his team for the year 2010-2011. That is determined solely on their level of play this year, not last year, this year. If a rookie came into the league and his play was at a high enough level to merit consideration and his team was top 5 in the league, then yes I would support him for MVP. This isn't some career accomplishment award, this is and should be determined solely based how valuable he was to his team in the regular season. There's already an award for post season play and that's the Finals MVP.
Lebron these last two years deserved it because he led his team to the best record in the league and didn't have as much talent on his team as others. Looking at how the Cavs performed this year seems to support that. Yes he was knocked out in the playoffs but that irrelevant on a regular season award, if it was a post season award then it would be voted on after the post season, but it's not, so how a particular player's team fares in the post season is irrelevant. The same is true with Nash, his team relied on him more than any player's team relied on their star during those periods and his team had the best record or close to the best record.
Yes, I'm aware that the talent level of the Lakers does hinder his MVP chances slightly, in that he would need to do more to stand out in these debates, same could be said about Coach of the Year as well. Shaq went through the same thing when he was the undisputed best in the league or at least shared the title with Tim Duncan. He only won 1 regular season MVP. But if there are multiple players in the running, and their stats, team record are nearly identical and they are clearly the man on their team (not sure why Lebron was ever in the running this year he has D-Wade on his team) then I would support the player who has less talent on the team and whom I felt had more responsibility on his team.
It just seems that we have a differing of opinions on what the MVP award mean. You think its a most outstanding player (Best in the League), while I feel its who is most valuable to his team for that particular year.
Originally posted by Stall_19
[B]No my thinking is not asinine. This year's MVP will go to player who was most valuable to his team for the year 2010-2011. That is determined solely on their level of play this year, not last year, this year. If a rookie came into the league and his play was at a high enough level to merit consideration and his team was top 5 in the league, then yes I would support him for MVP. This isn't some career accomplishment award, this is and should be determined solely based how valuable he was to his team in the regular season. There's already an award for post season play and that's the Finals MVP.
The MVP award should go to the most valuable player in the league. That's why it's called the MVP award. It's not about being the MVP on just your team, we're talking about the entire league here. Clearly previous seasons and postseasons are relevant as it shows who is the most valuable. Kobe is head and shoulders above everyone else in that department. It's relevant because it shows who is top in the league. Couple that with the fact that Kobe is having a better season than Rose, then it shouldn't even be a discussion. Being the most valuable is like being the defending champion, until someone comes and knocks you off, you are still the champion. Kobe has proven time and time again that he is the most valuable. So it's insulting that some 3rd year player could come in and just nab the MVP award as if he has proven himself.
Rose is the best player on the Bulls, he's the MVP of that team. But the MVP award is about being the most valuable amongst the entire league. And when you have someone like Kobe, sitting there with 2 straight championships, averaging 25-5-5(on a bum ankle, one knee and just 8 fingers), with his team second in the league in terms of record, then that award should go to him. No sane/smart person is going to pick Rose over Kobe when choosing the best player. Considering what Kobe has done past seasons/this season for the Lakers, he should be getting MVP #2. The award should go to the more proven player.
I've yet to hear a valid case for Rose over Kobe. Don't give me that bull shit about talent level. The Bulls have talent, the Lakers have talent. Kobe is a better player and has done more and will continue to do more. The Lakers are the 2 time defending champs and a favorite to win it all. Back in the day, this would have been cut and dry. But nowadays the MVP has been watered down by the likes of Nash/Dirk/LeBron, and soon Rose. This would have never happened to Michael. People knew who the best player back then was. And it was as obvious back then that he was the MVP, as it is now with Kobe.
Kobe will continue to get robbed of the MVP. It's an absolute tragedy that Kobe, one of the greatest players of all time, has just 1 MVP trophy. This season will be a perfect example as to why he only has 1. Some undeserving player comes along and steals it because the media is the one who determines who gets the award. LeBron, Nash, Dirk, Rose? Give me a break. Kobe should be getting his 5th trophy this season. I wish I can be like other Lakers fans and say that the only MVP that matters is the Finals MVP. But it's hard to ignore the ridiculousness of all of this. At the end of the season, Nash will still have more MVP awards than Kobe, and a 3rd year unproven player will have just as many as one of the greatest of all time.
This thread is proof positive of media brainwashing. Some guy thought it was so ridiculous that I dare say the 5 time champion is the MVP of the league. Let's not even look at the facts. ESPN says Rose is the MVP, who am I to question that?
An absolute joke.
Originally posted by Lord Evolution
The MVP award should go to the most valuable player in the league. That's why it's called the MVP award. It's not about being the MVP on just your team, we're talking about the entire league here. Clearly previous seasons and postseasons are relevant as it shows who is the most valuable. Kobe is head and shoulders above everyone else in that department. It's relevant because it shows who is top in the league. Couple that with the fact that Kobe is having a better season than Rose, then it shouldn't even be a discussion. Being the most valuable is like being the defending champion, until someone comes and knocks you off, you are still the champion. Kobe has proven time and time again that he is the most valuable. So it's insulting that some 3rd year player could come in and just nab the MVP award as if he has proven himself.Rose is the best player on the Bulls, he's the MVP of that team. But the MVP award is about being the most valuable amongst the entire league. And when you have someone like Kobe, sitting there with 2 straight championships, averaging 25-5-5(on a bum ankle, one knee and just 8 fingers), with his team second in the league in terms of record, then that award should go to him. No sane/smart person is going to pick Rose over Kobe when choosing the best player. Considering what Kobe has done past seasons/this season for the Lakers, he should be getting MVP #2. The award should go to the more proven player.
I've yet to hear a valid case for Rose over Kobe. Don't give me that bull shit about talent level. The Bulls have talent, the Lakers have talent. Kobe is a better player and has done more and will continue to do more. The Lakers are the 2 time defending champs and a favorite to win it all. Back in the day, this would have been cut and dry. But nowadays the MVP has been watered down by the likes of Nash/Dirk/LeBron, and soon Rose. This would have never happened to Michael. People knew who the best player back then was. And it was as obvious back then that he was the MVP, as it is now with Kobe.
Kobe will continue to get robbed of the MVP. It's an absolute tragedy that Kobe, one of the greatest players of all time, has just 1 MVP trophy. This season will be a perfect example as to why he only has 1. Some undeserving player comes along and steals it because the media is the one who determines who gets the award. LeBron, Nash, Dirk, Rose? Give me a break. Kobe should be getting his 5th trophy this season. I wish I can be like other Lakers fans and say that the only MVP that matters is the Finals MVP. But it's hard to ignore the ridiculousness of all of this. At the end of the season, Nash will still have more MVP awards than Kobe, and a 3rd year unproven player will have just as many as one of the greatest of all time.
This thread is proof positive of media brainwashing. Some guy thought it was so ridiculous that I dare say the 5 time champion is the MVP of the league. Let's not even look at the facts. ESPN says Rose is the MVP, who am I to question that?
An absolute joke.
I didn't mean MVP of his team. Of course Kobe & Rose are MVP's of their respective team. What I meant was that I believe that Rose is more valuable to his team than Kobe is to his. Of course Kobe is right now the better than Rose but i believe that Rose had more to do with his team's success this year than Kobe did the Lakers. Since this is a team sport and not a singles sport we can only determine a player's value in context to the team, otherwise it would be based solely on numbers regardless of team success.
No, I do not believe that previous years should be taken in consideration for this year's MVP. What is the MVP based off of? The performance on the court. Last season's performance on the court does not have any bearing on this season's performance. You say Kobe had a better season than Rose, how? Kobe's numbers this year 25/5/5 with a 21.58 efficiency rating, Rose's numbers 25/4/8 with 22.96 efficiency rating, That doesn't tell me Kobe had a better year, team standing, Bulls 53-20, Lakers 53-20, that doesn't tell me Kobe had a better year. So what's the basis that Kobe had a better season than rose?
Excellent article about the MVP over at ESPN.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=6280773
At least one person in the media gets it.