NBA discussion thread

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
I guess you missed the part where Artest clotheslined Ben Wallace, with 52 seconds left, and the Pacers up by 14 points? Wallace retaliated, and that's what started it all. Artest got what he deserved, including the lawsuits both he and his buddy Jermaine O' Neal get. Artest is a loose cannon, and a liability.

As for the fans, what's what the double standard? Artest shows he has another screw loose and maliciously takes someone out, then tries to play innocent and that's ok? Then you encourage fellow players to nail fans in the face, but when the fans stand up for their team, they are to blame? I would have done the same thing. Players DO NOT interfere with fans no matter what.

What? did you even watch it. It was a hard foul by Artest no doubt, but it wasn't a flagrant and Wallace overreacted to it.

Again did you even watch the highlights, or are you speaking out of your ass. It was the fans who threw debres at Artest to escalate the problem. It was the fans who threw chairs and soda's at players. It was the fans who went on the court looking to fight.

It was a ugly situation, but I'm sorry, I didn't see anything that the players did wrong. Players have to protect themselves and if a fan looks like he's looking to fight, whether or not he's is going to fight, the players first intention is to knock him out, it's self defense.

Artest didn't do anything different than any other NBA player.

one pacer did something wrong jackson i believe went in with artest and punched a guy in the face who def never touched jackson and hes gonna have a fat lawsuit coming his way because of it...

while the foul wasnt that hard..you have to look at the cirumstances.. they had a large lead with 50 seconds to go, the teams have a lot of emotion against each other and he def intended to foul him.. so while it wasnt a really serious hit on him it could very easily be considered flagrant because a flagrant foul is an intentional and harder then needed..

also saying he clotheslined him is rediculous you mine as well say you didnt watch the game cause it wasnt anywhere nere that

Ok, couple things on the fight.

1. Artest is an as-shole. Not just from tonight but it didn't help. Artest had the right to be pissed at the guy who through the cup but he went too far. He is a massive guy compared to the kid he went after, plus how would he know that was the guy. There was no way for Artest to know from the angle he was laying down (i watched the close up version over and over on ESPN Motion). The guy he attacked was attacked because of whatever the hell he said verbally because Artest didn't see who threw it (plus it was just a cup for godsake). The guy was an ass and should be punished but an Artest beatdown was not the way. I'd love to see him suspended for a year and give him plenty of time for his shit CD but he'll probably just get like 10 game suspension (the pitcher who threw a chair into the stands only got a few games in MLB).

2. Cal- couple things. "even if it wasn't the guy, he deserved it just for being an idiot and cheering and jumping up and down like he was because Artest got hit with the cup." I would have been jumping up and down from all the excitement. Hell, we all would because fights are entertaining. Does that mean we should get an Artest beatdown? No.
I do give him props for his "initial" restraint, but attacking the fans was too far.
Jackson is one of your favs for attacking fans in defense of Artest? Its no longer defending somebody when you start boot-stomping a guy (he did actually boot-stomp the buddy of the guy that Artest attacked).

3. wuTa- Just a correction on some of the parts of the fight. When Artest got back on the court, that is when a guy in a Piston rep-jersey jumped up to Artest. His hands were down but the way he jumped at Artest implied that he was there to fight so Artest slugged him. The guy went down a couple seconds later. The clip I saw broke off for a moment (not sure how long), but that was the SAME guy that Jermaine punched. Jermaine came from nowhere and punched the guy as people were helping him up and Jermaine went into a skid on his knees. (Dr. S. Are you sure chairs were thrown? I didn't see it in ANY of the clips I saw and I didn't read anything about chairs either. Plus most chairs are bolted into the ground in the NBA, most).

4. Artest's foul was a flagarant but not a bad one. I didn't watch the whole game leading up to the fight so I have no idea how heated things were leading up to this. Big Ben's push to the neck was way uncalled for. Like I said, this is where I give props to Artest for not really getting involved (at this point, not later).

5. Sounds like nobody is expected to be charged with anything but I hope they still will.

6. That was F*CKING AWESOME and I'm glad Reggie wasn't involved since he is injured.

Did anybody see Wade tonight as well? That guy is awesome.

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
I guess you missed the part where Artest clotheslined Ben Wallace, with 52 seconds left, and the Pacers up by 14 points? Wallace retaliated, and that's what started it all. Artest got what he deserved, including the lawsuits both he and his buddy Jermaine O' Neal get. Artest is a loose cannon, and a liability.

As for the fans, what's what the double standard? Artest shows he has another screw loose and maliciously takes someone out, then tries to play innocent and that's ok? Then you encourage fellow players to nail fans in the face, but when the fans stand up for their team, they are to blame? I would have done the same thing. Players DO NOT interfere with fans no matter what.

and did you miss the part where Wallace way overreacted and started it all. Yes it was a hard foul, but you're taught in Basketball, when someone drives to the lane, if you're gonna foul them make sure they don't get the shot off. A flagrant foul would've been if Artest would've shoved him to the ground. If you call that malicious, than every single person that's played basketball plays maliciously. I just hate how can you bash Artest now? People think he's an idiot and too emotional when he got in fights all the time on court, now Wallace starts a fight with him and Artest just backs aways and stays out of the fight and he still gets blamed. How does that work? It doesn't that's the thing. Just because he is an NBA player means nothing. Any man would've done the same thing in that situation and for people to say they would've done otherwise is just plain stupid. How were the fans standing up for their team? The fight had cooled down and was getting under control then some idiot decides to throw a cup and start it all. Fans have no right to "stand up" for their team. That's the problem with some fans today, they think they are part of the team. Keep in your seats and don't get involved, it is not your fight or your place to do anything. The fans got what they deserved and they deserved to be punished much more.

first let me see i may be the only detriot fan who likes artest...i know he's dirty and an ******* but you cant match his intestinty and i dont blame him for goin in the crowd but that foul was as dirty as his reputaion...it defintly wasnt the hardest foul in the world but it definetly was hard...your taught to make sure the go doesnt get his shot off but your not taught to push the back off his head with your forearm and your taught not to make stupid fools like that when you already have the game won like he did plus who knows what artest said to wallace during the game

"Any man would've done the same thing in that situation and for people to say they would've done otherwise is just plain stupid."

do you remember the detroit bad boys...everytime they went to chicago or boston they had shit thrown on them or were spit at and not once did they ever go in the crowd...i'm not saying artest was wrong because i probly would've did the same thing he did but dont say everyone would have done the same thing because not everyone would have

myth-i dont think it was the same guy o'neal slugged the one guy jumped at artest on the court than artest throw some shots than another guy ran on the court and thats when o'neal popped the other guy which was awesome that was almost as good as when tinsley come out of the locker with a dustpan...wtf is he gonna do with a dustpan?... and a chair was thrown.... i missed wade 🙁

Originally posted by Dr. Strangelove
What? did you even watch it. It was a hard foul by Artest no doubt, but it wasn't a flagrant and Wallace overreacted to it.

Again did you even watch the highlights, or are you speaking out of your ass. It was the fans who threw debres at Artest to escalate the problem. It was the fans who threw chairs and soda's at players. It was the fans who went on the court looking to fight.

It was a ugly situation, but I'm sorry, I didn't see anything that the players did wrong. Players have to protect themselves and if a fan looks like he's looking to fight, whether or not he's is going to fight, the players first intention is to knock him out, it's self defense.

I watched it atleast 3 times, and it was INDEED flagrant. He literally hacked his head off, and to claim otherwise is ludicrous.

It was Artest that took out another player with his antics, and then tried to play innocent. Some drunk jackass threw a beer, and Artest deserved it. This isn't the first time people in any sport have thrown things onto the field of play.

Players have to "protect themselves" from fans that are 20 feet away? Bullshit. All he had to do was run off the court, but no. He and 2 other players felt the need to get into the stands and pummel people, including the wrong guy. When they chose to attack the fans, it became personal. It's ****ing DETROIT! What do you expect for them to do? Shake your hand and accept your apology? Hell no.

Artest didn't do anything different than any other NBA player.

Yep, punching out fans is common in the NBA, right? 🙄

Originally posted by cal31
and did you miss the part where Wallace way overreacted and started it all. Yes it was a hard foul, but you're taught in Basketball, when someone drives to the lane, if you're gonna foul them make sure they don't get the shot off.

You don't need to lecture me, as I played organized basketball for about 12 years. Artest had no reason for hacking him, given the lead and time elapsed. None.

I just hate how can you bash Artest now? People think he's an idiot and too emotional when he got in fights all the time on court, now Wallace starts a fight with him and Artest just backs aways and stays out of the fight and he still gets blamed. How does that work?

If you're referring to my comments, it looked to me as if he were trying to play innocent. He snapped. Artest got his come-uppance, and since the NBA failed to solve his anger management issues, a fan gave him a one way ticket out of Indiana, by Artest showing his true colors. This isn't the first time he's snaped like this.

Just because he is an NBA player means nothing. Any man would've done the same thing in that situation and for people to say they would've done otherwise is just plain stupid. How were the fans standing up for their team?

You're right! Just because he's an NBA player doesn't mean he should retain his composure, run off the court, and let the police deal with it. Instead, why not go knock out some fans, throw my NBA career given my sordid past, get ANOTHER teammate to knock out some guys and have fun with it?

Afterall, NBA players are the golden children of sports,. Not that they need to work on their reputation. It's nothing but a G-thing here in the NBA.

All that said, I don't condoan what either the fans or the players did. Everyone's behavior was uncalled for, but again so was Artest's overall behavior. Again.

Looking at the footage again, it looked as if Artest pushed Wallace with one hand, with the other near his head, in what appeared to be a hack.

I'm not going to bother reading the rest on this page...

What Artest did to Wallace was NOT a flagarant foul. Wallace went up for a dunk, and Artest fouled him hard enough to make him miss....plain as that. It's what Kurt Rambis, Bill Lambier, Charles Barkley, and SEVERAL other competitive players would have done. Hell, if it was Karl Malone...Malone would have probably hacked Wallaces arm right off. He didn't blatantly push him in the back or take a swing at him...he agressively went for the ball.

Wallace extremely over reacted and should have just let the foul go, but being the player Artest is....I'm sure that push was for more than just the foul at the end of the game. I'm sure Artest was on Wallaces nerves all night long.

Artest should get a game suspension just for going over and laying on the scorers table....let alone what followed.

Even if he did the right thing by backing away from the fight, he's a complete moron and he deserves to have shit thrown at him for laying on the scorers table at the Palace. I mean, this is Detroit baby...maybe in Utah you can get away with that shit, but Artest got what I expected from some drunk, rowdy Pistons fans.

What Artest did to the fans by jumping up in the stands was uncalled for. It was far from self defense...it was just flat out retaliation. And it showed that he really hasn't changed from who he is in the past.

If security didn't have to spend so many resources on holding back the players, then I think there's a good chance a lot of the purpatrators in the crowd could have gotten arrested. Instead, it takes 9 security guards to calm down a rampaging Jermaine O'Neal....and several more to stop Artest and Jackson.

I just wish some big kickass fans would have been there to beat the sh!t out of the players because that will teach you not to go wandering off into another teams stands....especially in Detroit.

The chair throw was just ugly...that's Euro football shit.

does anybody know who threw the chair? Was it a fan or a player?

Originally posted by Linkalicious
I just wish some big kickass fans would have been there to beat the sh!t out of the players because that will teach you not to go wandering off into another teams stands....especially in Detroit.

did you see what happened to fred jones?...i guarentee you thats the last time he's going into the stands.....even if that foul wasnt flagront it was still uncalled for...the game was over..you could make the case that wallace overreacted but this is the same guy that jacked rip hamilton in the face last year and didnt even get a foul called on him....he may get away with cheap shots on hamilton but if you try anything remotely similar like that on either wallaces you better expect a reaction

Couple more things:

It was a flagarant: If you foul that hard without going for the ball, it is a flagarant. Artests forarm hit Ben in the head and his hand was still about 3 feet from the ball so I don't see how anybody could call it a play on the ball. They do say, if you are going to foul, make sure they don't make the shot, but you have to make a play on the ball, otherwise it is a flagarant.

Again, Artest can only be defended so much. Ben Wallace should have been mad for the foul, but the fight between players has to be blamed on him for his overreaction. Same goes with Artest and the fans. Artest had the right to be mad, but he is to blame for that part of the fight because of his overreaction to a cup being thrown. Ben should have went to the refs about Artest, and Artest should have went to security about the fan. Wallace should be suspended for starting the player fight but Artest should be suspended more for starting the fan fight. I keep on hearing about Artest's "restraint" but I see two situations here. He restrained himself only during one of the situations, the other, he overreacted big time.

The chair: Ok, I finally saw a clip with the chair. Looks like it was thrown at Jermaine.

wuTa: After reviewing, you were right, it wasn't the same guy but it wasn't on the other side of the court either. Artest punched a guy with a Detroit jersey and a hat. His buddy (also wearing a Detroit jersey) tried to grapple Artest to get him away from his buddy. That guy was pulled down and some guy in a suit (a player?) punched down at him. When that guy (the friend of the guy who got hit by Artest) was standing up (and talking shit) Jermaine came flying in for the punch.

I was also wrong about the guy that Jackson attacked. It was the same guy that Artest attacked, he just popped up a couple feet over so it seemed like somebody else.

The Fred Jones thing was bad too. He watched one of his teammates get punched and he only tried to pull that guy away. Another HUGE fan from behind him took a hook at the side of his head and then kept going after him. That guy should be arrested on the spot.

yeah, that fat guy that hit Jones was waiting behind the scorers table as soon as the fight started, and he was caught on tape doing it so he definetely should get something.

Is it too early to declare Grant Hill the comeback player of the year? 28 points against the six man PAcers squad,.

He's averaging 20 pts and 6 rebounds a game.

I would say so, it's a great story especially since the Magic will make the playoffs with that great back court of Franchise, Mobley and Hill.

Grant Hill is on fire at the moment. He is one of the class acts in the league on and off the court, he certainly deserves all the praise thats coming his way. Howard is playing well to, his scoring will come in time but in the meantime he is still making contributions on the other end of the floor. Looks like so far the Magic are benifiting more from a trade that seemed to be made for the Rockets.

Originally posted by koolruningz
Thats unheard of...until now i guess. Sorry you had to watch the 6ers go out like that. Do you think they'll make the playoffs?

Honestly, i think they will make the playoffs, we are in 1st with a 4-5 record.. and we are in a weak division... i think we should win the division, but thats my opinion, heres the standings

Philadelphia
4-5
Boston
3-4
Toronto
4-6
NY Knicks
3-5
NJ Nets
2-7

and as for the fight, wow, just wow.

The suspensions:
Artest--rest of season
O'Neal--30 games
Jackson--20 games
Wallace--6 games
Anthony Johnosn--5 gaves
Indiana's Reggie Miller, and Detroit's Chauncey Billups, Elden Campbell and Derrick Coleman--all one game

those suspensions are bullshit and this is coming from a hige piston fan...if it was anyone besides artest i doubt they would be done for the season...you got jackson and o'neal mixed up...jackson got 30 and o'neal got 25...o'neal doesnt even deserve a suspension....and i have no idea how miller, cambell, billups, and coleman got a suspension....stern is a ****in moron....i'd like to throw a beer in his face and see what he does

they were justified. Clearly justified.

O'Neal sucker punched that one guy on the court, and that is one of the most enduring images of the brawl. So Stern had to suspend him. How can you say that someone charging into the stands and inciting a mini-riot DOESN'T warrant a full season suspension? Spreewell got it after choking his coach, and obviously attacking fans is worse than attacking your coach.

These suspensions were justified and could ahve been worse.

Damn I wrote out a huge thing and my laptop AOL got disconnected.

I'll just say that compared to what Artest got for going into the stands looking for the fan that hit him to what that Texas Pitcher did in Oakland with throwing a chair into the stands with knowing that kids were in the stands and only getting the rest of the year when the baseball season was pretty much over is bush league. Artest should have gotten many games, a whole season, I don't agree with that.

Also I really don't like Steven A. Smith, but he made a good point two nights ago when he said if they're big suspension, it's going to upset the players association. A lockout for the NBA is becoming more of a reality as we speak.