Re: Whats with the Mormon cults?
Originally posted by JOE NUNEZ
I mean we have all seen the recent arrest of the Mormon guy, is it true they marry within their own families?
Typically, Mormon is in reference to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS Chruch for short), and we are only barely associated with these groups, and only due to historical origin. The most active splinter group that is an offshoot is the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS), which has disavowed Joseph Smith's first vision and much of the Book of Mormon, as well as denying that Joseph Smith ever practiced or condoned polygamy. RLDS broke off after Joseph Smith's murder. well before the LDS church ended polygamy.
Warren Jeffs is a member of what is called the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). This is a splinter group that began ~100 years ago when the LDS Church ended the practice of polygamy. There are three or four of these splinter groups still in existence, that I know of. The only aberrant behavior aside from the polygamous relationships that I have heard them accused of is marrying women young (between 15 and 18 years of age at times), although this young age is not the norm. Typically in these groups the age is at least 18 if not older.
These splinter groups are generally extremely small, consisting of between two or three hundred to one or two thousand followers. They are typically nearly 100% polygamous within each group, a number that far exceeds the number that had been practicing in the LDS Church at the time that polygamy was practiced (30-33% at its peak.)
Re: Re: Whats with the Mormon cults?
Originally posted by Regret
Typically, Mormon is in reference to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (LDS Chruch for short), and we are only barely associated with these groups, and only due to historical origin. The most active splinter group that is an offshoot is the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (RLDS), which has disavowed Joseph Smith's first vision and much of the Book of Mormon, as well as denying that Joseph Smith ever practiced or condoned polygamy.Warren Jeffs is a member of what is called the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS). This is a splinter group that began ~100 years ago when the LDS Church ended the practice of polygamy. There are three or four of these splinter groups still in existence, that I know of. The only aberrant behavior aside from the polygamous relationships that I have heard them accused of is marrying women young (between 15 and 18 years of age at times), although this young age is not the norm. Typically in these groups the age is at least 18 if not older.
These splinter groups are generally extremely small, consisting of between two or three hundred to one or two thousand followers. They are typically nearly 100% polygamous within each group, a number that far exceeds the number that had been practicing in the LDS Church at the time that polygamy was practiced (30-33% at its peak.)
I did a small opener for you 🙂
Here is the document that caused these splinter groups to leave the LDS church:
OFFICIAL DECLARATION—1
To Whom It May Concern:
Press dispatches having been sent for political purposes, from Salt Lake City, which have been widely published, to the effect that the Utah Commission, in their recent report to the Secretary of the Interior, allege that plural marriages are still being solemnized and that forty or more such marriages have been contracted in Utah since last June or during the past year, also that in public discourses the leaders of the Church have taught, encouraged and urged the continuance of the practice of polygamy—
I, therefore, as President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, do hereby, in the most solemn manner, declare that these charges are false. We are not teaching polygamy or plural marriage, nor permitting any person to enter into its practice, and I deny that either forty or any other number of plural marriages have during that period been solemnized in our Temples or in any other place in the Territory.
One case has been reported, in which the parties allege that the marriage was performed in the Endowment House, in Salt Lake City, in the Spring of 1889, but I have not been able to learn who performed the ceremony; whatever was done in this matter was without my knowledge. In consequence of this alleged occurrence the Endowment House was, by my instructions, taken down without delay.
Inasmuch as laws have been enacted by Congress forbidding plural marriages, which laws have been pronounced constitutional by the court of last resort, I hereby declare my intention to submit to those laws, and to use my influence with the members of the Church over which I preside to have them do likewise.
There is nothing in my teachings to the Church or in those of my associates, during the time specified, which can be reasonably construed to inculcate or encourage polygamy; and when any Elder of the Church has used language which appeared to convey any such teaching, he has been promptly reproved. And I now publicly declare that my advice to the Latter-day Saints is to refrain from contracting any marriage forbidden by the law of the land.
Wilford Woodruff
President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
President Lorenzo Snow offered the following:
“I move that, recognizing Wilford Woodruff as the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the only man on the earth at the present time who holds the keys of the sealing ordinances, we consider him fully authorized by virtue of his position to issue the Manifesto which has been read in our hearing, and which is dated September 24th, 1890, and that as a Church in General Conference assembled, we accept his declaration concerning plural marriages as authoritative and binding.”
The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous.
Salt Lake City, Utah, October 6, 1890.
EXCERPTS FROM THREE ADDRESSES BY
PRESIDENT WILFORD WOODRUFF
REGARDING THE MANIFESTO
The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty. (Sixty-first Semiannual General Conference of the Church, Monday, October 6, 1890, Salt Lake City, Utah. Reported in Deseret Evening News, October 11, 1890, p. 2.)
It matters not who lives or who dies, or who is called to lead this Church, they have got to lead it by the inspiration of Almighty God. If they do not do it that way, they cannot do it at all. . . .
I have had some revelations of late, and very important ones to me, and I will tell you what the Lord has said to me. Let me bring your minds to what is termed the manifesto. . . .
The Lord has told me to ask the Latter-day Saints a question, and He also told me that if they would listen to what I said to them and answer the question put to them, by the Spirit and power of God, they would all answer alike, and they would all believe alike with regard to this matter.
The question is this: Which is the wisest course for the Latter-day Saints to pursue—to continue to attempt to practice plural marriage, with the laws of the nation against it and the opposition of sixty millions of people, and at the cost of the confiscation and loss of all the Temples, and the stopping of all the ordinances therein, both for the living and the dead, and the imprisonment of the First Presidency and Twelve and the heads of families in the Church, and the confiscation of personal property of the people (all of which of themselves would stop the practice); or, after doing and suffering what we have through our adherence to this principle to cease the practice and submit to the law, and through doing so leave the Prophets, Apostles and fathers at home, so that they can instruct the people and attend to the duties of the Church, and also leave the Temples in the hands of the Saints, so that they can attend to the ordinances of the Gospel, both for the living and the dead?
The Lord showed me by vision and revelation exactly what would take place if we did not stop this practice. If we had not stopped it, you would have had no use for . . . any of the men in this temple at Logan; for all ordinances would be stopped throughout the land of Zion. Confusion would reign throughout Israel, and many men would be made prisoners. This trouble would have come upon the whole Church, and we should have been compelled to stop the practice. Now, the question is, whether it should be stopped in this manner, or in the way the Lord has manifested to us, and leave our Prophets and Apostles and fathers free men, and the temples in the hands of the people, so that the dead may be redeemed. A large number has already been delivered from the prison house in the spirit world by this people, and shall the work go on or stop? This is the question I lay before the Latter-day Saints. You have to judge for yourselves. I want you to answer it for yourselves. I shall not answer it; but I say to you that that is exactly the condition we as a people would have been in had we not taken the course we have.
. . . I saw exactly what would come to pass if there was not something done. I have had this spirit upon me for a long time. But I want to say this: I should have let all the temples go out of our hands; I should have gone to prison myself, and let every other man go there, had not the God of heaven commanded me to do what I did do; and when the hour came that I was commanded to do that, it was all clear to me. I went before the Lord, and I wrote what the Lord told me to write. . . .
I leave this with you, for you to contemplate and consider. The Lord is at work with us. (Cache Stake Conference, Logan, Utah, Sunday, November 1, 1891. Reported in Deseret Weekly, November 14, 1891.)
Now I will tell you what was manifested to me and what the Son of God performed in this thing. . . . All these things would have come to pass, as God Almighty lives, had not that Manifesto been given. Therefore, the Son of God felt disposed to have that thing presented to the Church and to the world for purposes in his own mind. The Lord had decreed the establishment of Zion. He had decreed the finishing of this temple. He had decreed that the salvation of the living and the dead should be given in these valleys of the mountains. And Almighty God decreed that the Devil should not thwart it. If you can understand that, that is a key to it. (From a discourse at the sixth session of the dedication of the Salt Lake Temple, April 1893. Typescript of Dedicatory Services, Archives, Church Historical Department, Salt Lake City, Utah.)
This is one of our Articles of Faith, it was given by Joseph Smith, prior to the practice of polygamy and gives some doctrinal reason for following the laws and ending polygamy.
Articles of Faith 12
12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
Originally posted by JOE NUNEZ
Thanks , I'm new to this religion stuff. I'm not a believer, but i always like to here both sides of any story.
It's all good, if this thread is active and I hear more on the case I'll post it, it's a local thing for me after all.
I actually have an uncle and aunt(aunt was the relative, and was his first wife) that left the LDS Church and joined one of the polygamous groups, they do not believe in young marriage at all, but they aren't in the Warren Jeffs group.
They seem to like it, although some of the stories they tell make me feel sorry for the men in those relationships. Imagine having five or six women that all gang up on you when one of them is pissed off. I have one wife, and I'm on the couch often enough. Let alone if there were more to get pissed at me. 😉 Plus imagine needing to house them, ugh. My uncle has the money at least.
Originally posted by Alliance
All the mormons I know are insane Chemists.
😆
We tend to pop up in professional circles 😉 Our current top leadership consists of men that were:
* Artist
* Retail Vice President
* Medical Doctor that was with the team of doctors which created the first heart-lung machine. In 1951, the machine was used in the first open-heart operation on a human being. Four years later, Nelson was the first doctor in Utah to perform successful open-heart surgery using a heart-lung machine.
* Utah Supreme Court Justice and considered by the Ronald Reagan administration as a U.S. Supreme Court nominee
* Owner of the car dealership that became the most successful in the country in the late 1950s
* Large Business CEO
* A nuclear engineer who did advanced studies at Oak Ridge National Laboratory for the Department of Energy.
* A president of the Papermate Co., a division of Gillette and Max Factor Co., as a vice president, and later headed Hughes Television Network.
* Three former University Presidents
* An associate professor of business at Stanford University
* A senior vice president of flight operations and chief pilot of Lufthansa German Airlines
But Church leadership is full time, so all these are formers 😉