Well, who knows. It's possible if you keep an open mind. One event by its self leads to other such type event. When you look back on certain events, you can sometimes see a pattern of coincidences. One thing leading to another and so on. Sometimes things may look dismal, but looking back and progressing them forward, one can see the possible outcome and the outcome is for your betterment in some way.
Originally posted by debbiejo
You really should find your happy place. 😊This whole thing is cool to me. Good things happening left and right. It does show you are on the right path, ya know.. 😄
Originally posted by debbiejo
Well, who knows. It's possible if you keep an open mind.
and it is the atheists and scientists who are called arrogant?
Originally posted by debbiejo
I didn't call anybody ignorant.
I didn't say you did. I actually was responding more to the general assumption of scientific arrogance. Many times in debates, scientists and atheists will be called "arrogant" because they have very logically sound and convincing arguments, and thus are very confident.
For you to insinuate that people with an "open mind" are the people who "get" what you are "about", is tellingly arrogant.
"Oh, dont worry, just think like I do and you will have an open mind and experience the real truth, just open your mind and experience things how I do. Open your mind and share the same truth I have."
It's as hypocritical as Leary telling a generation to tune in, turn on, and drop out.
Originally posted by debbiejo
There are some scientists working on this area.
and the results speak for themselves 🙂
Originally posted by debbiejo
It's coincidences and they have meaning. They are not just some random events.
but if you take that view on a global/stistical level. u will come up with some absurd results. we can see that a large portion of the world's population lives in misery of the kind that most people in developed places can probably never grasp{africa, thailand, parts of south america}. now the only consistant variable that accounts for it is race and/or demographics/geographics{strongest factor}. if you think each soul had a life plan, and also admit that people's souls are not prejudiced against when being put into bodies etc. then you have to admit to the absurdly impossible coincidence which can account for the COLLECTIVE misery of any1 born in a certain geographical region vs a developed one. it wud imply either that every 1 in africa etc just coincidentially happened to{also accounting over time} screw their lives up by going against their life plan and not "seeing" signs{also assuming that they have a good prior lifeplan and no prejudice is shown in the DISTRIBUTION of these "signs"}. and not only do they all just happen to be the souls who do it, but also continue doing it and dont stop even as new generations come in.
the PROBLEM generally with such views is that the ground reality of the world can be seen in statistics and equilibrium of people who have it good and have it bad. and these things can be directly corellated with WORLDLY causes which show no pattern which wud produe PERSONAL synchronicity, {as events affect a lot of people, and an even which benefists one dose sumthing bad to another. it wud be impossibly improbable that all the people were in such a place in the world and in their lives that the event wud cater to all their individual synchrnocities while still remaining ONE event. its simpler to say that it is a random process with no underlying order, predetermined or mystical etc}.
this is also the problems with the general position of relegious beleives which are associted with succes in the world. "be good and good things will happen to you" "pray and be relegious and you shall be blessed " etc etc etc. such things do not take into account socio-economic factors. for instance, if the greater portion of the human race started doing all the prescribed good things, they still wudnt all be BLESSED, because there will still have to be people who crate resources, people who have to clean toilets, people who have to mineminerals, people who have to laboriously create the common items humanity requires or offer services, people who have to drive cabs and generally do jobs which makes them serve under other people. you have to create ways of tackling the necessities and social prejudices of the world to create a more equal and better world for every1, not put your efforts in faith etc in the divine. because lets admit it, even if such things do exist, the ground necessities of the world will still remain and cause inequality and depravity.
oddly enough though, at an individual level, i wud have to agree sumwhat{even though it isnt a consistant process or a fair one} that such phenomenon do exist, theyr just not totalitarian in any sense of the word.
A gross simplification of quantam theory is that all matter is made up of energy arranged in a certain patterns, from the very simple, such as subatomic particles, to morte complex arrangements, such as living creatures. This leads me to two more ideas/assumptios: 1- That would make the whole universe just a giagantic system of interacting energy, and 2- conciousness itself might simply be just another complex energy system. 1 is supported by several eastern belief systems, such as Hinduism and Budhism, particularly in the Vedas, which are a series of ancient Sanskrit texts which contain many explorations and ideas about the nature of the universe. Both points also touch on the concepts of Gnosticim, that reality as we percieve it is just a construct by which we interpret the interaction between ourselves and the rest of the world (this idea was taken up heavily in The Matrix). With those 2 assumptions, we can see already how one energy system can affect another, as physical action would essentially just be the perception of changes in energy interactions, thus "changing the world" would simply be a matter of one ennergy pattern interacting with another in such a way as to produce a desired final state. Now supposing conciousness is simply yet another energy pattern in itself, wouldn't it make sense to have a way in which concious, and even the unconcious mind, can interact with its surroundings to produce a result?
There are only events that line up for us as markers to guide us on our path. You can choose to follow the things lining up like neon road signs saying, "GO THIS WAY" or you can ignore them in favor of "WRONG WAY" signs.
Originally posted by debbiejo
A gross simplification of quantam theory is that all matter is made up of energy arranged in a certain patterns, from the very simple, such as subatomic particles, to morte complex arrangements, such as living creatures. This leads me to two more ideas/assumptios: 1- That would make the whole universe just a giagantic system of interacting energy, and 2- conciousness itself might simply be just another complex energy system. 1 is supported by several eastern belief systems, such as Hinduism and Budhism, particularly in the Vedas, which are a series of ancient Sanskrit texts which contain many explorations and ideas about the nature of the universe. Both points also touch on the concepts of Gnosticim, that reality as we percieve it is just a construct by which we interpret the interaction between ourselves and the rest of the world (this idea was taken up heavily in The Matrix). With those 2 assumptions, we can see already how one energy system can affect another, as physical action would essentially just be the perception of changes in energy interactions, thus "changing the world" would simply be a matter of one ennergy pattern interacting with another in such a way as to produce a desired final state. Now supposing conciousness is simply yet another energy pattern in itself, wouldn't it make sense to have a way in which concious, and even the unconcious mind, can interact with its surroundings to produce a result?There are only events that line up for us as markers to guide us on our path. You can choose to follow the things lining up like neon road signs saying, "GO THIS WAY" or you can ignore them in favor of "WRONG WAY" signs.
but do you understand what you are implying when we consider such hypothesese or theories? you are implying that each person is the creator of their own reality more or less. and seeing as theres absolutely no reason why two people shud create the same one, the entire world, or objective reality doesnt exist. but infact you create and change it through your actions. which leads to a scarier implication, you are utterly alone in the world, and what you percieve to be reality is nuthing more than your own dreams and neither the people you see in it, nor the overt things you see, actually exist. im not saying it isnt a possibility, but im saying that its a worse one than a reality in which an objective world exists. and there is always the chance that you wrong debbie, and there infact does exist an objective reality of which you are a smalll part of and which doesnt have any great plan or fate for you and in which things happen due to randomness and you are subject to the result of those things.
Just out of interest Debbiejo, how do you know any alternatives exist...maybe you couldn't opt out of going on the blind date that led you you falling in love and making millions...there might be one set out path and not several...
Also, the idea that good things come from bad events is just obvious isn't it...if something is very bad something good is going to come along eventually...
you are implying that each person is the creator of their own reality more or less.Well, this would make some sense if we are made in gods image. The force being creative and us too being creative. All things in evolution/evoliving in the process of creation continually.
Just out of interest Debbiejo, how do you know any alternatives existBecause we have free will to make any choices we desire.
maybe. i am not discounting the possibility. but as i said, that wud mean that the people around you, the world around you, and specially any anima or entity around you is an illusion of your own making. and for a ot of people that wud make it pointless to pursue anything worhtwhile like lovingsum1 else, showing affection, having the fealing of being "liked" or "loved" or adored etc etc. since they are all illusion of your own making. life wud be reduced to the pursuence of at best, personal benefits or sensations reserved to the physical body or the most basic emotional function. how is such an existance better than one in which a real world and real entities outside urself do exist but you are caught up in the unfortunate and sumwhat helpless{different for different people} cycles of randomness.
Originally posted by leonheartmmI don't believe people are an illusion at all. Why would it be pointless? I see it as great potential. If you see it as randomness then you lose any real sense of your part in it. If you see it with a purpose that you can act on, then you could choose where the best direction is for yourself, if you see the signs.
maybe. i am not discounting the possibility. but as i said, that wud mean that the people around you, the world around you, and specially any anima or entity around you is an illusion of your own making. and for a ot of people that wud make it pointless to pursue anything worhtwhile like lovingsum1 else, showing affection, having the fealing of being "liked" or "loved" or adored etc etc. since they are all illusion of your own making. life wud be reduced to the pursuence of at best, personal benefits or sensations reserved to the physical body or the most basic emotional function. how is such an existance better than one in which a real world and real entities outside urself do exist but you are caught up in the unfortunate and sumwhat helpless{different for different people} cycles of randomness.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Because we have free will to make any choices we desire.
How do you know that? You can speculate that you wouldn't do something but you'd never know...
For example,
You see a Kit Kat and eat it, ofcourse you think to yourself that you didn't have to eat it, you could have just left it...but how do you know that? Maybe you had to eat it.
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_GavWell that would be predestination. That view discounts free will in all facets too. But it could be that we have limited free will. But to say we don't have any choice limits us to puppets.
How do you know that? You can speculate that you wouldn't do something but you'd never know...For example,
You see a Kit Kat and eat it, ofcourse you think to yourself that you didn't have to eat it, you could have just left it...but how do you know that? Maybe you had to eat it.
Originally posted by debbiejo
Well that would be predestination. That view discounts free will in all facets too. But it could be that we have limited free will. But to say we don't have any choice limits us to puppets.
Just because you don't like the idea of being a puppet...doesn't mean your not. My point is, all the stuff you describe could simply be predestination.